Mass General Brigham-MA

Idk what specific answer you’re looking for…. Quality research (first-author, novel research, no bullshit case report/research letter) preferably with faculty at a T5 institution, step score >260, amazing clinical LORs, and something cool, non-med/derm hobby or project on the side. Bonus points if you go to a T5 med school. And even after all of this, pray to the Gods. And then be a cool, normal person at interviews.

does it matter if your resesarch is accepted versus submitted-- for example if im first author on a translational work and its just submitted will this be a huge disadvantage

accepted is better than submitted, but at least you can put submitted on eras

my first-author research was accepted super late like a few days prior to start of derm interviews because mentor didn't care and tried to sabotage :/ I had to bring it up in interviews. Probably hurt my overall interviews but helped a lot to secure match.

there is no specific answer. you could try to google or talk to the residents accepted to these programs but even then you might not even know what secret sauce they have lol. but there's most likely something interesting about each one of them (even if it's personal history, prior career outside medicine). or you might know and not even realize what the programs are valuing.

I did that rotation a few years ago (current resident now). It is not a good rotation if you expect to get a letter. You will be bouncing all over the place (MGH and DFCI mostly) working with 10+ different attendings. no continuity whatsoever, I honestly think I would've benefitted better from using that month to do a project with an HMS affiliated faculty rather than doing that rotation.

I did that rotation a few years ago (current resident now). It is not a good rotation if you expect to get a letter. You will be bouncing all over the place (MGH and DFCI mostly) working with 10+ different attendings. no continuity whatsoever, I honestly think I would've benefitted better from using that month to do a project with an HMS affiliated faculty rather than doing that rotation. -->thank u for the input!

dont think so but there's a tab here that lists some and reddit has them too. I would say that don't just go by TY or prelim, you need to go by the schedule since some TYs have worse schedules than prelims. Generally though, prelims are harder but not always. You want somewhere that gives you 5-6 months elective ideally, which actually multiple prelims do. The major difference though is the rest of the year for prelims likely is mostly something IM related, whereas in some TYs the rest of the year may be broken into IM/surgery/EM/OB/etc. You want to AVOID any prelim/TYs that have you in 8-9 months of inpatient/required blocks with minimal elective.

< Thanks! But how/where can i find this information out about programs?

Usually websites do a good job, but many of them are not updated. Some programs are basically categorical medicine years masquerading as prelims (BIDMC for example).

Yea the BIDMC schedule looks terrible

if they say they treat their prelims the same as categorical RUN

eh idk, some programs say that because they don't want you to feel like you'll be left out socially from the categoricals. In reality, you just need to look at the schedule and make sure they dont give you the same exact or worse schedule as the categoricals

Just cause this gets asked here every year, of the 3 main Harvard prelims, BIDMC is definetely the worst. Only 3 - 4 weeks of elective time that has to be done in internal Medicine rotations mostly and can only take 1 week at a time! I have friends who did this program and they finished the year with 8+ months of wards/inpatient services which included at least 4 weeks of VERY intense ICUs. Run if you can..., I did another prelim in Boston and I was not nearly as burned out as my friends at BI were.

i was told by a PD that doing that is a bad look

no offense why would you even want to do this

<<<it would probably be a massive departmen like harvard. OP could theoretically mine letters. However, this would be dumb to do late in the cycle.

no offense why would you even want to do this<first time applying idk shit

what do you mean by non-ivory tower programs... it's derm.

not op, but I strongly dislike this sentiment that some people have. As much as derm is competitive, there ARE ivory programs and non-ivory programs. Harvard, Yale, Penn, UCSF. An example of a non-ivory program: MCW. There will always be stratifications even in the most competitive of things, and these stratifications are always worth keeping in mind when you can only apply to 28 programs

ivory tower is a meaningless label, the earlier you learn that the better off you'll be

ivory tower is a meaningless label, the earlier you learn that the better off you'll be>>> yeah a ton of harvard/penn/ucsf grades end up going into private practice...

umm, yes ivory tower doesn't mean better training, but it is considered prestigious and harder to match. OP isn't asking about ivory tower programs, they're asking about non-ivory programs, so your "the earlier you learn" comment comes off as not helpful and condescending

this whole let's not talk about the T10 things is weird and comes off as gatekeepy. These programs exist and people will still be applying to them. Besides, I agree with the previous commenter, OP is asking about non-ivory tower/community programs. No need to step up on y'all's soapbox

When I rotated at Orange Park they had MD residents from UMiami and UCLA. But I know at least the UMiami grad rotated there and they seem to highly prefer their rotators.

depends on your goals, do you want to go somewhere prestigious? A prestigious letter will help; if you are just trying to go somewhere local/community based they wont care as much

I don't have a big preference - I'm from a lower tier med school so I'm not really gunning for, say, Harvard. I'd be fine with a community program or "less prestigious" academic institution - air quotes because there's not really that many institutions I would say that about, but just in comparison to the big big name ones

a higher quality letter is ALWAYS better

yes agree, you want strongest possible letters to get an interview. Having said that, would still recommend networking w prestigious institution as that can open doors for interviews/research etc if you have a mentor there

yay thanks y'all!!!!!

i had both letters, a lukewarm one from a very prestigious academic center and a glowing one from a mid tier program. the glowing letter was brought up in almost all of my interviews and i ended up matching at a t20 derm program

What makes a "glowing" letter?

Oooomph that’s gonna be a mega long shot bestie. Highest chances will be doing a RY with an attending there if you’re willing to take a RY

Hard to get in unless you have a connection or are strongly targeting the "less desirable" tracks like peds or med derm

even those are pretty hard. heard they do RTM calls for all their positions too

I matched at penn with no connection, no away and no RTM call

this year?? per the 2026 match tab the gen derm spots were a home student and someone who did an RY at harvard

Harvard

USC

Even more important than rotation mills are programs that only take their own research fellows. While rotation mills will still interview and match a percentage of their rotators (with variability between programs), programs that only take their research fellows will rotate and interview many of their rotators, but ultimately offer little to no chance of matching for those outside their fellows.

what programs do this besides sinai

what programs do this besides sinai, Mayo AZ

Rotating, signaling, and interviewing at these programs is a waste of time and is performative; they already know who they plan to take for the upcoming cycle

WashU

very true. Do NOT waste your time at Mayo AZ or Sinai. UConn also (at least this year). CWRU as well is a major rotation mill people need to talk more about

UCONN

Penn

Wake

CWRU

northwestern

I did not do any aways in the Boston area (have spent time there working before which I mentioned) but gold signaled and did get interviews from MGH/BIDMC (noting that MGH does not do signaling i guess), I really liked BIDMC as a program culture - they seem to work hard but everyone was really friendly and seemed to love being there, also really liked the med ed aspects. MGH seemed super workhorse and not sure how the Bigelow model works in real time (task oriented rather than team members taking specific patients); they tout their 24 hour shifts which are not appealing to me lol. I didn't end up matching at either d/t preferences but overall would have been really happy to be at BIDMC. Gold signaled but did not get II'd at BWH

Matched last cycle, have friends at both programs. BIDMC has great culture but you will basically be doing a categorical IM intern year with only 3 - 4 weeks of elective time that has to be taken in random medicine fields that may not be relevant to derm (though one friend had 1, only 1!, week of derm in the entire year). The program has no other time off or research time for prelims and scheduling STEP 3 studying and time for prelims is notoriously difficult for prelims here (my friend had to take their STEP 3 during vacation, no thanks!). In contrast, MGH culture is a little more intense but prelims get an assigned mentor in their PGY2 field there (which could be useful for fellow and research projects!) and have like 3.5 months throughout the year for research/elective. Overall I think MGH is a better program for prelims as it is built as such, BIDMC program is basically a categorical IM intern year.

Great points thank you for addressing the elective time difference (reply #1 here lol), that is a huge consideration!!

intern here doing a prelim that's basically a categorical IM program (not in Boston). My program sounds basically identical to what the poster described for BIDMC. In retrospect, I would 100% take a program like MGH (even if there are Q24hs here and there) vs. my current situation. Not having time off to decompress from the B.S of wards and medicine has really made me jaded this year. I genuenely think 6 months of medicine throughout the year is enough for a dermatologist, suffering through an extra 6 months has taken a toll on my mental health. If I was you, I would highly consider doing an away at MGH or BWH vs. BIDMC (after reading about their prelim programs) and rank them accordingly if you get to interview there.

Intern here doing a prelim that's basically a categorical IM program (not in Boston). My program sounds basically identical to what the poster described for BIDMC on reply #2. In retrospect, I would 100% take a program like MGH (even if there are Q24hs here and there) vs. my current situation. Not having time off to decompress from the B.S of wards and medicine has really made me jaded this year. I genuenely think 6 months of medicine throughout the year is enough for a dermatologist, suffering through an extra 6 months has taken a toll on my mental health. If I was you, I would highly consider doing an away at MGH or BWH vs. BIDMC (after reading about their prelim programs) and rank them accordingly if you get to interview there.

Can someone elaborate on this "2-3" aways advice? Many times in the other spreadsheet people said to only do 2 due to the APD recommendations.. How enforced/risky is it to do 3?

ask your program leadership to see how much they care about following the rules. If you have no home program however, you can do 3 aways safely. But at a minimum do your 2 aways. I'm seeing people underapplying and ending up with 0-1 aways because they were too picky. And stop rotating at places you have no shot at (rotation mills, harvard/penn tier if you're a regular applicant)

How would you define a not regular applicant?

having just 260+ and RY alone doesn't make you a stand out candidate. these days you need an X factor (wow factor) like being an olympic athlete, MD-PhD published in lancet, started a company or non-profit, etc. it's a lot more competitive than people think and unfortunately people find this out too late.

I'm gonna throw up

Is there any danger in over-applying and then having to turn down programs? Does that disadvantage you in trying to get an interview there?

false you dont need wow factors you just need them to like you, programs pick people they like once basic competence is fulfilled as simple as that sounds

im just answering the original question, not saying that's what you need to match derm. You can match derm in general with a much more average app

each derm program is already oversaturated with increasing internal numbers, research fellows, away rotators, reapps, so getting an interview w/o an away is extremely hard unless you have killer scores. my two cents are to apply and do as many aways as you can, rather than burning any meager bridges you had to begin with by withdrawing from an away. worse case APD guidelines say applicants shouldn't be penalized for withdrawing from aways if they chose to "adhere to the guidelines of 2/3 aways"

APD trying to normalize and abnormal process. You follow the rules and do 2 aways while someone else does 5. Or you do 2 aways and someone else follows the rules with you but secretly has nepo connections with a guaranteed seat somewhere while you're stressing over not matching. Stop handicapping yourself to appease some socially inept out of touch group of nerds

each derm program is already oversaturated with increasing internal numbers, research fellows, away rotators, reapps, so getting an interview w/o an away is extremely hard unless you have killer scores. my two cents are to apply and do as many aways as you can, rather than worry about burning any meager bridges you had to begin with by withdrawing from an away. worse case APD guidelines say applicants shouldn't be penalized for withdrawing from aways if they chose to "adhere to the guidelines of 2/3 aways"

you right my b

I just want to say I didn't have any real problems with securing my aways because I asked my mentors in november if I could rotate the following year. Don't be afraid to ask people who can help you to help you early, because VSLO can be super unpredictable. I think the real race starts even before VSLO lol

Pick your aways carefully

word

I know there’s a list of rotation mills, but it’s also important to consider which programs primarily take their own RY fellows, doing an away rotation there and signaling them is a complete waste

How many aways should we have right now to feel comfortable and not an impending sense of doom

Has anyone heard back from UCLA

matched applicant this cycle here, completely agree with OP. apply aggressively and do as many aways as you can, even if that is 5 or 6 one-month long rotations. It will be exhuasting but Do them, they will yield interviews and while quality> quanitity it is also a numbers game and more interviews = more chances

As a final parting message from a matched re-applicant - the application cycle starts the moment VSLO opens. Right now is the key moment that will lay the foundation of your cycle. People may disagree with me, but I will personally advise anyone reading this to aggressively apply for aways right now. You need, at a minimum, to strive to get 2-3 aways. The more aways you get the better your chance at matching. Keep applying for aways, you may not always get your top choices but something is better than nothing. And use your mentors to help you get aways if you still aren't getting any despite applying to a good # of aways, or if you just want a specific away. Please please please listen to what I am saying to give yourself the best chance at matching.> second this as another matched applicant

Can someone elaborate on this "2-3" aways advice? Many times in the other spreadsheet people said to only do 2 due to the APD recommendations.. How enforced/risky is it to do 3?

ask your program leadership to see how much they care about following the rules. If you have no home program however, you can do 3 aways safely. But at a minimum do your 2 aways. I'm seeing people underapplying and ending up with 0-1 aways because they were too picky. And stop rotating at places you have no shot at (rotation mills, harvard/penn tier if you're a regular applicant)

matched applicant this cycle here, completely agree with OP. apply aggressively and do as many aways as you can, even if that is 5 or 6 one-month long rotations. It will be exhuasting but Do them, they will yield interviews and while quality> quanitity it is also a numbers game and more interviews = more chances

How would you define a not regular applicant?

having just 260+ and RY alone doesn't make you a stand out candidate. these days you need an X factor (wow factor) like being an olympic athlete, MD-PhD published in lancet, started a company or non-profit, etc. it's a lot more competitive than people think and unfortunately people find this out too late.

false you dont need wow factors you just need them to like you, programs pick people they like once basic competence is fulfilled as simple as that sounds

im just answering the original question, not saying that's what you need to match derm. You can match derm in general with a much more average app

you right my b

I'm gonna throw up

Is there any danger in over-applying and then having to turn down programs? Does that disadvantage you in trying to get an interview there?

each derm program is already oversaturated with increasing internal numbers, research fellows, away rotators, reapps, so getting an interview w/o an away is extremely hard unless you have killer scores. my two cents are to apply and do as many aways as you can, rather than worry about burning any meager bridges you had to begin with by withdrawing from an away. worse case APD guidelines say applicants shouldn't be penalized for withdrawing from aways if they chose to "adhere to the guidelines of 2/3 aways"

I just want to say I didn't have any real problems with securing my aways because I asked my mentors in november if I could rotate the following year. Don't be afraid to ask people who can help you to help you early, because VSLO can be super unpredictable. I think the real race starts even before VSLO lol

Pick your aways carefully

word

I know there’s a list of rotation mills, but it’s also important to consider which programs primarily take their own RY fellows, doing an away rotation there and signaling them is a complete waste

How many aways should we have right now to feel comfortable and not an impending sense of doom

Has anyone heard back from UCLA

this made me lol but same

third this 100000x

agree with the prior comment- for every "adhere to APD guidelines" comment there is a response comment saying "they are just guidelines, i did not follow" etc.

The best one is the one you like the most (+/- the one in the city you like the most)

This obsession with T5s, jeez. If it makes you happy, great! At the end of the day you will be a dermatologis though. People from not T5s end up as faculty at T5s all the time, and many T5 residents end up going into private practice.

probs has to do with this administration lol

lol i feel like publishing anything in JAAD/JAMA is impossible these days

the dear dermatoethicist studies being published 24/7 make me go WHAT WHY THIS AND NOT MINE but alas

OMG same here

not true. have had 2 jderm and 2 jaad in the past year. this is my gut i think the rise of claude code and agentic AI leading to the ease of putting together crappy analyses + thrown together letter has the reviewers looking more closely at things. + if you don't have stats/epi credentials or aren't publishing w/ a PI who has a stats/epi background. whenever i submit I always provide my code for full transparency so they know whats up.

they publish absolute garbage in JAAD as long as its an MGH senior author

or UConn since editor is from there

A plurality of candidates match at home program. None of those candidates 'needed' to do an away. Aways are very helpful but you can match w/o

people match wihout doing a single away alll the time

but is this people who are choosing not to do any aways or those not getting offers?

usually schools like harvard where they discourage it

so NOT people who applied and just didnt get offers :(

no aways and matched. however i had to really show people my personality during interviews etc. and couldn't bank on people already knowing what i was about

how did you go about doing that effectively? and did you apply to aways or chose not to?

I chose not to apply to aways until july bc wasn't convinced on it being worth the money. I got multiple interviews with 1 away (in nov) and i didn't match at the away. I could've just saved my money for a month (although still happy no matter what, hindsight 20/20). I also got rejected from like 19 aways and only got 1 and got an interview at a place that rejected my away app. YOU WILL BE OK

that is actually so helpful to hear :') and im happy it all worked out for you!

Matched at my top choice without doing an away -- you will be just fine!! Just nail your interviews.

this is going to be an annoying answer, I know. But i just kept reminding myself to be authentic - I talked ALOT to my boyfriend everyday about experiences that I had in the past and during my RY and current topics in healthcare, in hindsight I realized that these "rant sessions" were really just practice interviews to me. I chose to not do aways, but I wish I had done at least one away because I missed out on a few institutions that I really liked. But ended up matching at an institution I probably would have picked over the others anyway.

I also matched at a T5 without an away! you dont need to do an away to match at many places

the only caveat is that soem applicants I've talked to this cycle only got interviews from their home + aways - in that case you are losing a connection but agree it's still possible

to the matched at a T5, chose not to do aways due to life circumstances. The program wasn't one i had any ties to geographically/otherwise, not my home program

agree with the person saying many people only get interviews from home + aways. unless you are an above average candidate (amazing grades, research, etc), getting aways can be difficult. it is not "first come first served" like many people are led to believe. matching with no aways when you are from a t10 med school is not the example to give as hope. for average applicants, aways are the most important thing

to the matched at a T5, chose not to do aways due to life circumstances. The program wasn't one i had any ties to geographically/otherwise, not my home program But is everyone who "matched without doing aways" coming from T5-T10 med schools? because that makes a difference. if youre a DO student or at a low/unranked MD school and not doing any aways and dont have a home program thats a completely different reality.

no i matched T5, from a mid tier state med school

catty resident at Stanford who treated me like sh** during my away and then was fake af during my interview

Two certain Harvard PIs who employ an army of research fellows and leave them hanging, also they play favorites...

weird Case resident that made tiktoks talking shit about the rotating med students

name and shame!!

not OP but sounds like Vinod Naubidiri or Steven Chen

Was this a PGY3??> lol i wish i could shame one place so much but it's too small >:( i think i've done enough shaming to the right people though

Someone drop the tea on Case lol they matched only home students

not OP but sounds like Vinod Naubidiri or Steven Chen >> Adena Rosenblatt at UChicago is a damn weirdo, and she has a passive aggressive MA that is rude to all the medical students.

super rude PGY3 at USC Derm I hated working with her

lol i wish i could shame one place so much but it's too small >:( i think i've done enough shaming to the right people though

how do Nambudiri and Chen play favorites?

yesss harvard is super bad institution nobody apply yall

Harvard RYs have good match though, why not apply? I see RYs who did research with Chen matched Harvard... like?

sounds like some salty people here this year

every year there are, always happens after match :P

i can't edit my comment but was being sarcastic w/ the nobody apply comment. the OP sounds a bit salty - not trying to invalidate the stress of RYs especially at a top institution that attracts great students

super rude PGY3 I hated working with her

Agree some oft the PGY3s at Case are so toxic

was the stanford resident a pgy-2?

case residents are so fake

would definitely recommend the smaller, lower tier school that you're interested in matching at and this is coming from someone who did their RY at a top-tier program with many other research fellows

Anyone have thoughts on Mount Sinai RY (other than the internal bias for their RY candidates, are they decent output, good mentorship?)

imo one of the best RYs you can do. several of their RY students presented at AAD this year. your mentor will be a derm expert and if you work hard and get along with everyone you have a very good chance of matching there

imo one of the best RYs you can do. several of their RY students presented at AAD this year. your mentor will be a derm expert and if you work hard and get along with everyone you have a very good chance of matching there>> Presenting to AAD aint shit lmao the only benefit is that they have strong linkage to match internal.

Thoughts on doing a RY at Harvard?