Univ of Vermont Medical Center

Any big city is going to be dangerous, Houston is no exception. I wouldn't worry about it, but if you're really worried about safety there are many programs in safe areas (Dartmouth, Geisinger, Vermont etc)

Yay don't rank them, very unsafe, you may be killed - Agree

tbh thats how I feel about baltimore - ranked them really low last year

Please everyone remember to take "malignancy" as reported on this anonymous spreadsheet for what it really is. You don't know who is calling a program malignant or for what reasons. Unless it is a clear pattern of malignancy (for example U-Michigan a few years back as reported on SDN (which has now corrected itself)) you shouldn't give it much value at all. If a program (especially a top 20) was actually malignant, it would be abundantly clear on the interview day as it's not something that can be hidden. So, I guess my hope is that you trust your impression after your interview day and having met most of the faculty and residents, over anonymous posts on this spreadsheet. Even if someone doesn't like the feel of a certain program, that doesn't make them malignant, and neither do 7 am lectures. So please, stop spewing accusations of malignancy, and more importantly remember to consider the source. Don't let random people convince you to rank a program lower.

<people arguing about which tip top programs are malignant and why, while I'm sitting here with my non-top programs unable to relate at all haha...ha x3

if the program's residents can't or won't say any negatives about the program, that is an instant red flag for me. -- Agreed x2

I interviewed at place where the residents had these pitiful smiles when telling us about their typical day. Then they asked me about work life at other programs, which really made them sad...

Exactly!!! These are signs that the residents aren't happy.

As an Ivy League graduate, forgeddaboud our sports leagues. You just cannot compare the big schools to us.

totally kidding about the football, mostly just wondering about the programs if you have any insight

I can't say much for Brown or Providence to provide a point of comparison, but for Dartmouth, you want to consider whether you can handle New Hampshire and snow for 3 years (for the record, I absolutely adore rural New England but understand that many don't feel similarly). You're really the only academic game in town for ~100 miles (UVM is 97 miles away) with 1-2 other residents, so you will get lots of cases and exposure, but not as much skin of color training as you'd receive in an urban program. For either, the Ivy name is really a non-factor at this point of our training, so don't let those factors beguile you. From what I can see, though, I see there's usually one person (in a historical class size of 2) matching into dermpath/Mohs, so take that as you will, and looks like people have gone off to be faculty members at some great academic programs. Residents seem pretty set for whatever they want to be doing.

I would say anywhere there’s sun because of high volume ... maybe places that have a fellowship likely to take their own after 3 Years...

yea, like with everything, hard to compare among the top. One resident I was talking too said having tons of amazing applicants who want to match into the same fellowships can make it harder at some top programs (but it is also impossible to predict how many ppl in your class will want to do it)

yeah honestly the best place is where they have a mohs fellowship attached to the residency. vermont is reputed to have a fantastic mohs program, not top 5, but yeah.

That's true, many non-top 5 have good placement especially with their own fellowships and others they have relatinships with. With the top 5, if you can match there, you can probs do well for fellowship match too

is there a list of all programs with Mohs fellowships somewhere? Like a match list? << yes i linked it below a long time ago, one sec << "how competitive is Mohs to get into? Are there stats on # of applicants and # accepted?

i think its extremely competitive, abuot 50% match rate see https://www.sfmatch.org/SpecialtyInsideAll.aspx?id=10&typ=1&name=Procedural%20Dermatology%20%28Mohs%29# statistics tab, 95 applilcants for 58 spots << wow the stressful competition never ends...so even if you're at a top derm program there is still a 50% chance you wont' match Mohs | It is crazy competitive. Also if multiple coresidents are applying makes it more competitive unfortunately."

< those are aggregate stats though right? not by individual programs. I meant a list of programs that offer Mohs fellowship << oh im sorry lemme check. https://www.abderm.org/residents-and-fellows/fellowship-training/micrographic-surgery-and-dermatologic-oncology.aspx#ListProgs

I was told Vermont has a great Mohs program

Does it matter to go to a program with a home fellowship if you're potentially interested in doing a Mohs fellowship? Or which program you are in/their level of surgical training?

how competitive is Mohs to get into? Are there stats on # of applicants and # accepted?

i think its extremely competitive, abuot 50% match rate see https://www.sfmatch.org/SpecialtyInsideAll.aspx?id=10&typ=1&name=Procedural%20Dermatology%20%28Mohs%29# statistics tab, 95 applilcants for 58 spots << wow the stressful competition never ends...so even if you're at a top derm program there is still a 50% chance you wont' match Mohs | It is crazy competitive. Also if multiple coresidents are applying makes it more competitive unfortunately.

There are some benefits to doing a program without a Mohs fellowship since the residents get to be more hands on and don't have to compete with fellows for good cases.

HF has strong surgical training

Iowa as well!

Sorry. I felt iffy about this program. I got an invite but seems like all their residents have New England ties - not sure if they’d actually rank me. << I'm from NY and got rejected << from MA and got rejected.

yea, like with everything, hard to compare among the top. One resident I was talking too said having tons of amazing applicants who want to match into the same fellowships can make it harder at some top programs (but it is also impossible to predict how many ppl in your class will want to do it)

yeah honestly the best place is where they have a mohs fellowship attached to the residency. vermont is reputed to have a fantastic mohs program, not top 5, but yeah.

That's true, many non-top 5 have good placement especially with their own fellowships and others they have relatinships with. With the top 5, if you can match there, you can probs do well for fellowship match too

is there a list of all programs with Mohs fellowships somewhere? Like a match list? << yes i linked it below a long time ago, one sec << "how competitive is Mohs to get into? Are there stats on # of applicants and # accepted?

i think its extremely competitive, abuot 50% match rate see https://www.sfmatch.org/SpecialtyInsideAll.aspx?id=10&typ=1&name=Procedural%20Dermatology%20%28Mohs%29# statistics tab, 95 applilcants for 58 spots << wow the stressful competition never ends...so even if you're at a top derm program there is still a 50% chance you wont' match Mohs | It is crazy competitive. Also if multiple coresidents are applying makes it more competitive unfortunately."

< those are aggregate stats though right? not by individual programs. I meant a list of programs that offer Mohs fellowship << oh im sorry lemme check. https://www.abderm.org/residents-and-fellows/fellowship-training/micrographic-surgery-and-dermatologic-oncology.aspx#ListProgs

So there are a lot of layers to "why be angry at people who have lots of interviews". I want to go back to making memes. 1. I don't think anyone is GENUINELY angry at applicants with tons of interviews because by definition, their CV is good enough that they earned them. It's ironic that some of the programs that choose the applicants to interview think the applicant will actually rank them in their top 4 or 5 or to actually match unless the program is similarly stupendous. Okay UVermont, I get why you're jizzing in your pants over the 275/275/15 pubs/AOA candidate that is fake-gushing over your program, but is he more likely to rank UCSF or your university? These programs invite the top-tier candidates who have multiple interviews at places they won't actually go to, leaving candidates within the residency's "league" out in the fucking cold, and then both program and applicant are left wondering what happened come match time. It's a huge waste of time for both people. Just think back to medical school interviewees who hoarded interviews or acceptances. You fuckwads out there with 12 interviews at 10 locations you'd never realistically want to match at are playing the game, no shame in that, but absolutely fuck the entire process come rank time because unlike med school interviews, it's one and done this time. 2. The rest is more personal and if you don't understand an inferiority complex you'll never understand what I would have typed anyway.

< yo is this guy writing war and peace what's going on

Well, this guy mentioned that he's getting a beer first

mb you go ahead, my dude. let it all out << omg i literally choked a bit on my beer at that 'writing war and peace', fuckin hilarious dude that shit made me cackle <PS: HOW FUCKING COINCIDENTAL ---> <- As the OP of this row, thank you for your time and candor << meme king here, no problem, i love when a real-life example presents itself to reinforce my assertions

<< lol preach. do you think limiting the # of places we can send apps to (e.g. <20 derm programs) could help solve this? << I think limiting number of interviews could be good. Even a high limit like 15 which guarantees a match based on past data would help distribute spots and help programs use their interview slots more efficiently since it would make the people with more than that make decisions earlier << what % of applicants realistically get 15+ interviews though? I feel like an interview cap won't help even out the distribution unless we were talking something lower, like 8. Which no one would agree to .

The match statistics show 28 survey respondants with over 15 fyi so not huge, but not insignificant << wow is the 28 statistic official from ERAS, or just this spreadsheet?

here's my analogy: let's play russian roulette with 2 bullets loaded in a 10-chamber system. you feel good about those odds? no? then shut the fuck up about 80% matching, because that other 20% means you fucking DEAD. no, in fact i think it'll make it worse. the top-tier applicants will go 80/20 split top and mid, us mid-tiers will go 10% top 90% everywhere else, programs will be similarly inundated and there will be zero trickle.

< I disagree that programs will be similarly inundated. If applicants apply to 60 programs on average, reducing the number of apps each applicant can submit will reduce the number of apps programs review accordingly << each program thinks they're going to get lucky with the top applicants that safety-apply to their program and think "this is our standard" and eschew the other applicants. so yeah maybe you're right, but i dont think so.

That would explain the dermatology residents from top 5 schools who end up in really random programs.

As someone at a top 5 school, I am praying for a random program. Most tend not to interview us unless there is some geographic connection

< I hate that it's become an arms race and I feel compelled to apply to programs I'm less interested in (who also likely isn't interested in me) just so that I can say I did everything I could << Programs are likewise trying to depersonalize and streamline the process with standardized LOR, Case-Western-esque "what's your rank" forms, etc. I feel like it's getting worse for everyone. << SLOE for EM situation, exactly << It's awful. Effectively screws over 50% of applicants who get bad evals.

I'd be so stressed if i was applying EM with those SLOEs < Unpopular opinion, but I think that long supplementary applications should required by every program (not the nonsense like Wake Forest's, though). It really helps people to explain why they would specifically like to go to an institution and people would only be filling them out for programs that they are serious about. Two of my interviews came from Supplementary Applications << I agree. It saves me from the pressure of writing a LOI too because I feel like I had the chance to say what I wanted to say in the supplemental.

Let’s be honest for some of us we really would go ANYWHERE vs not matching so even if it is “dead last” if they’d still be willing to go what’s the issue? << hoarding interviews i just said that. i literally just said that. the game is the game, but seriously wtf at these people. << the issue is that as it is, everyone is dropping thousands of dollars applying to dozens more programs than are likely to interview them. There has got to be a way to improve the efficiency of the system so that there is a more even distribution of interviews among every applicant << I've been thinking of a "match" type system for interview invites. Applicant must list top 20 schools of interest. If program wants to use "demonstrated intrest" as a factor in sending out interviews, they can do that. Top tiers would still get swamped, but I think smaller programs would be reassured that students actually want to go there.

< more like wtf at programs inviting the same people who can only go to 1 in the end << oh believe me if it's one thing i hate more than the applicants who hoard interviews, it's the fucking PROGRAMS above all else.

agree

do you actually believe that there are people with 8+ interviews at this stage? I feel like everyone I've talked to have like at most 5. << I absolutely believe it. << yes with 50% of interview invites released, there are absolutely people with high single/low double digit interview invites.

for sure the same 1-2 people are getting the invites at my school x2

maybe it's a good thing I don't talk to co-applicants at my school about the # of invites they have. sparing myself the mental stress.

<< /thread

DAMN IM OUT YOU SAID IT ALL

Damn, shots fired

Yay don't rank them, very unsafe, you may be killed - Agree

tbh thats how I feel about baltimore - ranked them really low last year

Does it matter to go to a program with a home fellowship if you're potentially interested in doing a Mohs fellowship? Or which program you are in/their level of surgical training?

how competitive is Mohs to get into? Are there stats on # of applicants and # accepted?

i think its extremely competitive, abuot 50% match rate see https://www.sfmatch.org/SpecialtyInsideAll.aspx?id=10&typ=1&name=Procedural%20Dermatology%20%28Mohs%29# statistics tab, 95 applilcants for 58 spots << wow the stressful competition never ends...so even if you're at a top derm program there is still a 50% chance you wont' match Mohs | It is crazy competitive. Also if multiple coresidents are applying makes it more competitive unfortunately.

There are some benefits to doing a program without a Mohs fellowship since the residents get to be more hands on and don't have to compete with fellows for good cases.

HF has strong surgical training

Iowa as well!

Yes, grew up close to Burlington and wrote about this in personal statement

Ok, thanks for sharing. Good luck!