Wake Forest Baptist Med Ctr-NC

Harvard

USC

Even more important than rotation mills are programs that only take their own research fellows. While rotation mills will still interview and match a percentage of their rotators (with variability between programs), programs that only take their research fellows will rotate and interview many of their rotators, but ultimately offer little to no chance of matching for those outside their fellows.

what programs do this besides sinai

what programs do this besides sinai, Mayo AZ

Rotating, signaling, and interviewing at these programs is a waste of time and is performative; they already know who they plan to take for the upcoming cycle

WashU

very true. Do NOT waste your time at Mayo AZ or Sinai. UConn also (at least this year). CWRU as well is a major rotation mill people need to talk more about

UCONN

Penn

Wake

CWRU

northwestern

> they are respected historically d/t strong faculty presence but the training itself is terrible. spend 1 day in clinic with feldman or Mcmichael, its a joke. cramming 40-50 patients in a half day. you get no surgical exposure and also fail to get enough autonomy to properly get volume and reps in moving bread and butter derm cases

A lot of people are disgruntled with Wake because they didn't get interviewed after doing an away. Truth is it's an outstanding program with high volume complex med-derm and very respected attendings that still treat the residents like colleagues without an ego. The clinic is fast paced, and it is not as high surgical volume as less academic programs that see less complex med-derm, but all the residents feel they are getting amazing training and think the surgical exposure is great. They had two Mohs matches this year into exceptional Mohs programs. Don't buy into the crap on these spreadsheets too much, if you are interested go see for yourself

unfortunately what you are saying is just simply not true. they regularly do not match MOHS fellows, they have no surgical exposure (very large portion of what you'll be doing as an attending), clinics are an absolute shit show (re: clinics already mentioned and jorizzos clinic.. pls -- even if complex med derm walked in you wouldnt be able to truly appreciate given the volume). they also only have one attached fellowship?? No peds, mohs. Having only 1 fellowship attached is low-tier at baseline. I don't see how you can defend this program.. simply relying on OLD facult names. You can only keep riding Jorizzo's coat-tail for so long. Also, pls elaborate on "great surgical exposure"... cause thats........ not true. You will regularly do less than 1 excision per week at this program. GL transitioning to private practice

rather than claiming these are disgruntled aways who didnt get an interview, can you comment on if what has been said is true?

js i rotated here and while faculty are friendly and it is true they treat residents like colleagues without ego, that doesnt change the fact that the training isnt good. ranked low for that reason. very lackluster relative to other programs

unfortunately what you are saying is just simply not true. they regularly do not match MOHS fellows, they have no surgical exposure (very large portion of what you'll be doing as an attending), clinics are an absolute shit show (re: clinics already mentioned and jorizzos clinic.. pls -- even if complex med derm walked in you wouldnt be able to truly appreciate given the volume). they also only have one attached fellowship?? No peds, mohs. Having only 1 fellowship attached is low-tier at baseline. I don't see how you can defend this program.. simply relying on OLD faculty names. You can only keep riding Jorizzo's coat-tail for so long. Also, pls elaborate on "great surgical exposure"... cause thats........ not true. You will regularly do less than 1 excision per week at this program. GL transitioning to private practice

js i rotated here and while faculty are friendly and it is true they treat residents like colleagues without ego, that doesnt change the fact that the training isnt good. ranked low for that reason. very lackluster relative to other programs <<< dont try to delete what people are saying lol

js i rotated here and while faculty are friendly and it is true they treat residents like colleagues without ego, that doesnt change the fact that the training isnt good. ranked low for that reason. very lackluster relative to other programs <<< i think people from wake r trying to delete this thread lol

current PGY1 here suffering through intern year. I always tell my senior to discharge our med student as soon as we can, we also always vouch for them and tell the attending they had a research meeting/advisor/etc. No reason why you guy sshould be here post match.

im just not showing up LOL

plz don't do this unless the attending who is in charge of the course gave u ok. never know who may wake up on the wrong side of the bed and decide they have time today

current PGY1 here suffering through intern year. I always tell my senior to discharge our med student as soon as we can, we also always vouch for them and tell the attending they had a research meeting/advisor/etc. No reason why you guy sshould be here post match.>> I told my Urology postmatch ms4 to not come back for a week and a half of IM rotation lmao

when i was there i acutally saw a resident beg to set up a lowkey basal cell excision, blocked out 3 hr of the morning to do it no joke. they get next to no surgical volume



going off thread below, does wake forest really get that low of surgical volume?

when i was there i acutally saw a resident beg to set up a lowkey basal cell excision, blocked out 3 hr of the morning to do it no joke. they get next to no surgical volume

< anyone else that can confirm this? thought WF was a strong program?

Rotated at WF, it's not as strong as they want to appear. Low surgical volume.

agree. i think this program gets hype from old faculty but really its pretty terrible training

but what if I'm a pretige whore < prestige is the stupidest thing, chasing prestige is even dumber

prestige means lower pay

not if you go from prestige into private practice

yeah but your paycheck at pivate practice will be the same regardless of if you do derm residency at a T5 or elsewhere

your academic paycheck might be what is starting higher if you're coming from a T10, especially if you have a niche or well needed specialty

you said you want to make bank. academic program is completely worthless for that. not gonna gear you towards private practice and you also wont get enough bread and butter volume at those programs to transition directly to a high volume private practice. I know residents at academic places (cough, wake forest) who are lucky to get 1 or 2 solo excisions per day

if you come from a more prestigious school in private practice, will you get paid more?

no its rvu or collections based

no

prestige mattered during undergrad and medical school. for residency, literally just go where you have family/friends and they don't overwork you and make you take a ton of call (inpatient medicine has 0 relevance in private practice derm). forget the school name, it's just a 3 year job

prestigious school does not matter outside of academia. purely how efficient you are at bread and butter derm i.e. patient volume

Just a quick tip - last year many people including myself did not get the email right away but the NRMP portal updates right away. So if the time has come and you're not seeing an email, just log into the NRMP portal to see if you matched. -> It all happens 10AM EST, right?> yes!

Thank you

this is so annoying they cant even guarantee we all get the email?

wait i dont see this on the NRMP <

Will we be able to see the results via email notification? Just want to know if I'll be forced to face reality when I'm not ready to

wait i dont see this on the NRMP

ok wait thats so early i will prob be sleeping if my body doesn't wake me up at 5AM like the last 3 days :D

ok wait thats so early i will prob be sleeping if my body doesn't wake me up at 5AM like the last 3 days :D>Will we be able to see the results via email notification? Just want to know if I'll be forced to face reality when I'm not ready to>do you mean the small banners? Also dying to know

fuggin same. its a problem. >it's nice coming here because we all know what we're going through, it's hard for others especially not in medicine to relate

right? And if I have one more med friend applying IM tell me "I sure hope I match!" I'm gonna scream

its 2 am and im on here. i have a prblem

>

ya it was a very enjoyable day!> Wells Fargo?

LMAO I thought the same thing too lolol I think they meant Wake Forest

wakealicious

lmfao @ wakeforest

did not know WF was such a golden program

im still not over the wake forest rejection >:( yeah i'm pretty sure markdown syntax doesn't render properly in google sheets. ugh not more gpt jokes , oh no chatgpt is back in the chat 🙄 >> There is zero vibes in Miami , a bunch of ego inflated attendings and weirdo residents that do not fit the extroverted / Miami energy of the city whatsoever.

do the residents at davis have hobbies?? lol and i do agree with the mohs factory being mayo

hated every second of reading this

im still not over the wake forest rejection >:( yeah i'm pretty sure markdown syntax doesn't render properly in google sheets. ugh not more gpt jokes , oh no chatgpt is back in the chat 🙄 >>

apply for the away, see if you get it first . its hard to get aways

also, as someone who did not do aways i would recommend doing them

I agree, I would apply to a BUNCH of aways and sometimes you don't actually have a choice at all, like you only get what you get. focus on applying to higher yield ones but you can throw in a wake app and see where you get in or where you don't

OP: thank you all! appreciate the insight

i applied to 20+ish schools and only got the 3 aways i got! theres no harm to denying aways if done in an appropriate amount of time, so try to get them in the first place :)

To add more perspective, Wake has several current residents that did aways. If you go there and perform well (it is an awesome rotation and super fun) AND you have a strong application, you can definitely get an interview. I loved my rotation and am looking forward to the interview. After rotating Wake shot up my rank list and I think the training there is elite

how do you know if you performed well? Based on what others have said on this spreadsheet, it seemed like some people were told they would get interviews but didn't

the harsh truth of derm is people are poor gauges of their own performance. Rotated with many people who didn't get interviews at various institutions and they almost exclusively had aspects of their personality or clinical work that was subpar. Either couldn't read a room, too pushy with inserting themselves, too much ass kissing, or weak clinically

any reasons for ranking that program lower?

I hated it during my away :'(

if you hated it on an away you likely won't love it while there for 3 years, don't let something as superficial as perceived "rank" make you miserable you'll still be a dermatologist on the other side so train where you think you'll be a balance of most happy and well-trained

thank you this is good advice I think I just needed a wake up. everyone has been questioning me so sometimes easy to get lost in the noise, ty for your kind response!!

fwiw, i dual applied IM and interviewed at a t20 IM program. I hated it. It's going on the bottom of my list even lower than community programs (I ended up loving them!) my family can't wrap their heads around the reason why, but I had to come to terms that I would hate to be somewhere like that just for the show of it, and I had to swallow my perceived pride and rank of such things to come to that conclusion.

I'm considering doing the same thing due to location. Agree that it feels weird. Fingers crossed we end up where we should!

i absolutely plan to rank on vibes and life, like it's a big draw to derm that you can actually have a life so why be somewhere just for the prestige. my box checking is over

it's also hard because I don't think I get that much from an interview day? it's so hard to catch the vibes!

wtf

OP: yes! honestly if I hadn't done an away then that program would've been my easy number 1 (highly ranked, great interview day)!! So I'm at least thankful I could spend a large portion of time there to see what's its really like and how much it's not for me

based on that interview day, i thought it wouldn't be a good fit because I asked the PD about culture and how you can get paired with a mentor and they told me "culture is no longer negative here, and for mentorship, this is a job not school so you need to go find them yourself" so was immediately turned off, LOL

sorry you had that experience; that is such a red flag

please add to fame/shame!

wtf is a Feldman

"a feldman" god derm is so hilariously gay

how else would you have liked me to phrase it damn

not surprised given that its such an israeli department

who are the Feldmans?

this is so insane, i can't believe it.. just saw a video about her and her family's links to epstein

and she's the daughter of a billionaire omg?

Deleted: "Guttman scares me legit and I only saw her at a conference like once

Looked up the Feldman btw. Some big name derm at Wake

i'm just gonna say this - there are very powerful ppl in the background that influence things. not unique to derm

I mean she still had to do an RY at Sinai

THIS is the tea im here for

drop her name

she's pretty easy to find, there's another mt sinai derm resident who is also the daughter of a multimillionaire (like 100s) which is wild

Celina Dubin. Just say the god damn name. Stop trying to be mysterious.

imagine applying to mount sinai that year as an innocent little applicant hoping to get in off of just your credentials, and then here you have the daughter of a billionare hedge fund manager who's connected to epstein applying with you.

a lot of people, especially at Sinai, are children/grandchildren of very wealthy people. There are multimillionaires in every class and around 60% of folks don't take out loans. If they aren't super wealthy, they have a parent who is an attending/faculty at Sinai. But also, Guttman don't care unless you do an RY at Sinai.

Honestly, we were all dealt different cards in life, and the only way to get the dream is to punch upward and try your best when you aren't given a full house.

I love being a random regular person that matched at a better program than Sinai

That's what I'm talking about. I know it's been at least a year since you matched, but from one random regular person to another, congrats!

yeah dude i get it, i didn't take out loans and my parents are millionaires sure but in the order of 10-15 million not 100+ million or billionaires enough to influence me going to certain undergrad, med school, residency or meeting people that will put me in the right rooms to get into freaking Sinai Derm

umm, so most people in college don't fit your demographic. I guess the grass is always greener looking at people at higher socioeconomic statuses, but when your parents are millionaires, and not 100mill/billionaires, you still were afforded opportunities that most others didn't have. But also, the best shot at matching at Sinai is being a Sinai student and doing an RY with Guttman, answering her 6am on a weekend phone calls telling you to come in during your RY, hoping she doesn't hate you and she loves you enough that you aren't 1 out of the 3 fellows that don't match and will never match. There are many programs, specifically in NYC, that will not rank you high enough if you are a Guttman/Sinai RY fellow. It's literally why almost no sinai student matches outside of Sinai (except Stanford every couple of years, Einstein sometimes).

why is it that all the hardcore zionist faculty are the meanest ones> tbh if ur a proponent of colonization and genocide maybe u need to be ousted from professional environments idk just a thought

a lot of leadership at derm programs in places like NY are hardcore Zionist, so what do we do about that "

Steve Feldman is an absolute angel and does not belong in this discourse. I highly doubt he even knows this girl or her family> Feldman is a mfin G and he's anti Israel. Never speak bad on my homie ever again

I check it every hour of the day... >I check it every hour, but I also have a few tabs open on different devices just in case I miss something.

I’ve got an alarm set every 30 minutes just so I don’t accidentally forget to check in and make sure the derm updates are intact gotta keep up with the uconn lore lmao

Honestly, I feel like I’ve become one with this spreadsheet at this point like, we’re basically a team

Some days, I get a little wild and start checking it every 10 minutes, just in case there's a new comment or a cell got formatted differently

The derm sheet has literally taken over my life; I even dream about it sometimes, trying to recall the last change I saw in cell G3 Manifesting for another interview or that someone magically cancels

I’m convinced the dermapp spreadsheet knows me better than my therapist at this point like, it’s reading my mind when I refresh it

It's now my morning routine: wake up, grab coffee, and immediately dive into the derm spreadsheet like it's a treasure map

lol nobody knows what we're going thru i like checkin it

q8hr

POOP

BID two weeks on, two weeks off alternating with my other specialty I applied into.

what's the other speciality, is this spreadsheet better lol?

IM, this is definitely more active but IM has nicer people on it lol ( the tea spill and drama on here is part of my nightly phone time)

haha dermies or should I say wannabe dermies are defintely something

if i match derm i feel like ill still check in on here peak app season to see what's good 🤣

pgy2 checking in bc i love reading the tea