Mayo Clinic School of Grad Med Educ-MN

I had actually planned on filling it out after tomorrow but because of the incessant emails I am not going to and advising all my friends going into derm to not as well

I am reporting this to ERAS and I encourage you all to as well -- Do it! x5

Fuck you Mayo x13

fuck off mayo... who is selling you my info -- We paid them $26 to steal our info when we were dumb enough to apply to them on ERAS, which means we literally paid them to steal our data

I stopped adding mayo to anything I cook or eat << Love this!

"accident" (you could always CTRL-Z)

Yes I want more data but I don’t want these random people at mayo to have all of my personal data to publish? They don’t say what they’re doing with it and IT’S A TERRIBLE SURVEY. They are missing some important variables.< Like what? It seems about as annonymous as posting data on this spreadsheet only now, it's in the hands of somebody that will do something more meaningful with it << it’s literally tied to your email address it’s not anonymous

why are you so protective of your information? It's not like it can be used to steal your identity

also the link doesn't work

straight up the sketchiest program I interviewed at -- so pissed when I saw that email. I paid money to apply to your school and you dont even interview me and then use my email address from the application to try to get me to be part of your research study. umm no, that's not happening, show some respect

Wait what did they do?

send an email asking us to participate in a survey. I assume they sent this to everyone ebcause I got it and I did not interview there.

Automatically deleting wtf << why delete?? Haha. Is it bad to give them data? -- nothing wrong with research, but its inappropriate to recruit people the way that they did. very unprofessional

Not BS. The PD had a slide about this on the intro powerpoint if you recall. Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies

Someone is so damn desperate to go to Mayo-MN --- trust no one

I interviewed and don't recall anything about that

I do remember something about a 7 point plan that they had to create with ACGME to improve the program.

yeah this was because ACGME found a bunch of issues and was also why the PD was changed recently

< it's true.

I remember that all the sites (MN, FL, AZ) share tele didactics I believe Mondays at Noon? or something like that...

I remember residents saying their lectures were often at noon, but the time wasn't protected so they were often late due to morning clinic running over. They did say this was on their list of things to change, though

very cold -- cold city, but very impressive program x2

the new interview impression is insane did they really have 0 fellowhip matches - Doesn't seem true at all

they either matched or didn't, it's binary. Which is true?

I also interviewed and it's true that none of the 3 mohs applicants matched

yeah, none of their 3 Mohs applicants matched this year (2 of them found spots outside the match, apparently) -- confirmed by residents at interview day

heard it was only 1 outside the match, other 2 doing apprenticeship model

Yes. There should also be a code on the letter that the hotel asked me for when I made the reservation.

MayoAZ?

<- i feel like a lot is based on history no? I know at NYU they trained some of the trailblazers in derm (like way way back) and it was also big during the AIDS epidemic -- That's good to know. Tbh, I actually don't know much of anything about derm history, and wasn't aware. So do you think they got their reputation mostly based on years of continuous contributions to the field?

NYU is the top creme de la creme program.

i would cream myself to match any of the top 5 x2 <My mentors have mentioned slightly different lists to me that they consider the top programs (though 3-4 of those always make the list), so it is all subjective. <<< Thanks for the input, good to know that they may not be as static as they seem

< would love to hear your mentors lists

Tufts, Harvard, BU, UCLA, UCSF

LOL <why are 3/5 in Boston? That just doesn't sound right to me.

< do you mean no academic dermatologists out of those who did Mohs or those who did not?

i heard mayo matched all outside residents this year and none of their residents that applied matched....idk if true or a rumor.

Having had a few interactions with Dr Alam, i wouldnt say he’s overtly arrogant. He is very direct but also has a sense of humor. Not sure how he compares with other mohs attendings in terms of how he treats his fellows though

< can rank both, your choice. unsure how competitive.

< can't say personally that I know specifics but have definitely heard from current residents ranking non top 5-10 places higher than such prestigious places for much better environments supporting of any career path.

If you want to do Mohs, it can be helpful to choose a program that has a Mohs fellowship (for instance, Stanford does not). You may want to also consider that certain top programs may be less likely to want to train their own residents. For instance, I've heard UCSF sometimes prioritizes non-UCSF residents for Mohs fellowship slots - in that case, the reasoning is they'd prefer to train people who'd be less likely to stay in the Bay Area as the market is already saturated there and they don't want to train more "competition" for their own practice. That's certainly not to say that any of those top programs won't be super supportive in your application to other top programs. It's honestly probably a case-by-case thing. << that's a BS made up story. They dont care if you stay in the area. You aren't "competition" for them. If that ridiculous postulation were true, no program would train people from their home program for fear of "competition" to their practice. Ridiculous. >> the competition piece is a common concern for Mohs surgeons, so it is true.. not sure who feels so confidents its not, it is, it is well known in the Mohs field that people dont want to train their own competitoin -- certainly not all mohs surgeons, but about 50% probably feel this way including some at academic institutions<< that may be true overall but the OP was specifically saying this about UCSf and it should have been a more general statement, because it doesnt only apply to UCSF. << seems like the OP is just trying to make UCSF look bad when, in actuality, it is probably one of the most supportive programs in the top 5 for Mohs

<--That's not true at all. UCSF basically always offers to keep their residents if they want to stay. I know that for a fact. They've had plenty of years where 2/3 or 3/3 fellows were UCSF residents.

OP here. This is based off discussions with a former UCSF resident who wanted to stay at UCSF but did not match there. I have no idea what this specific residents relationship with the department was...but can you tell you this is honest and true information I discussed with said resident. UCSF is a great and supportive training program. And this person did match elsewhere at a great program. Honestly not trying to mislead anyone. << one residnet not matching at their program doesn't mean "they dont like to keep their own residents." That was likely a resident specific issue. It's not helpful when you use broad/sweeping statements. <--- OP again. The way I was explained this was this was the "culture" at UCSF for Mohs - and same logic was applied to other internal applicants that year. I also personally know my own program's Mohs fellowship director prefers not to take internal candidates - though he's very supportive of getting them matched elsewhere. His rationale is more that he prefers to bring in "new" people to the program, rather than preventing "competition", though our metro area is also admittedly saturated with Mohs surgeons and it is difficult to impossible to find a full time position. I've also heard of other programs - like Mayo Rochester for instance - highly favor internal applicants. It's an institution-specific thing.

I will second the fact that its common knowledge that many places don't want to train their competition for Mohs. I have no knowledge about which specific programs / if this applies to UCSF, but just backing up the OP in saying that this line of thinking would not be out of place as it is prevalent in the Mohs field <<To echo this, this is true for many subspeciality fellowships in many different fields. New fields that are not recognized fellowships yet often have fellows sign noncompetes today which was true for some Mohs programs 15-20 years ago (and probably still true for the some that are not ACGME). Now, most fellowships can't have official noncompetes, but they will try to pick applicants with that in mind...medicine is a business.

this is true and has actually been studied/reported in the literature. https://journals.lww.com/dermatologicsurgery/Citation/2019/10000/Micrographic_Surgery_and_Dermatologic_Oncology.15.aspx

<has anyone interviewed there yet? I thought they were all in january

< I thought they had one in Dec.

UCSF, Cornell, Yale, (but Cornell and Yale apparently required Step 2 prior to interviews, according to Frieda but I don't know how stringent this requirement is). Mayo also said in Frieda that it requires Step 2 prior to interviews, but I got a waitlist there, so I don't know how true it actually is. UCSF is also known to make individual exceptions, according to my dean. In short, if they didn't ask for it, then I wouldn't really think much of it. A couple of residents at different top 5 programs told me that they never updated the Step 2 and the rank list is made after the interviews anyway so there's so many factors going into it (but also note that they were from top medical schools themselves).<<will confirm they werent stringent on step 2 criteria. got an interview invite from both without having taken step 2 ck or cs by that time.

Great for if I failed CS. x2

same

(Please let one of them be mayo, please let one of them be mayo)

(please trickle on me, I just one drop of that sweet nectar on my tongue)