Mass General Brigham-MA

How are you doing, Meme? Did this week bring you any good news? << not at all! still sitting on 1 interview since late october. << Sorry man, thanks for your positive attitude through it all. << its all good, i think working out and memes really help, hope your application cycle is going well!

Krispy kreme and video games.... But also got rejected for med school and undergrad, hurts less every time

Oof, the last time I got an interview at Harvard was for the college. And rejected at that too. Still stings, even after a decade. I wish my head could let things go. headspace.com helps a lot

<< lmao its me again from the bottom cells, i work out 6 days a week now, and post a ton of memes here. also teaching myselff some basic life skills so that i doont die in intern year

< For harvard just look at the Boston temp and all of the different locations you would have to bounce between. << i did a rotation in NYC and this applies to the NYC schools as well. ~1 hour times between their satellites.

and in san fran, $4000 gets you a studio apartment! lol

<- I think you have to tell yourself (and to some extent believe) that everything happens for a reason. You didn't get interview at the programs you wanted, but honestly maybe you wouldn't have been happy there to begin with. So really it's just saving you time/energy/money wasted. At least that's what I tell myself

yea i've been trying to do this too

nope x 6 <

have an internal invite. Has your home program released invites yet? or aways? hang in there

also there may be trickle invites in December << For the skeptical, trickles are real...I got one this week. Hang in there

there was a PGY-1 in the discord chat yesterday night Yesterday at 11:21 PM I was curious and counted w the sheet today since i just rediscovered the sheet, I would have had 10 at this point I matched my #1 Yesterday at 11:21 PM Nice I have 10 right now too so now i feel like absolute garbage :( *** For the record this was a TOP applicant who likely matched at Penn or Harvard. Stay in your lane. You’re doing just fine!!! << thank you, but i am also garbage for other reasons :) - meme

< I really feel like having 10 at this point is an outlier more so than the norm. 10 is a very respectable number to have total in the end of the season, and there are some states that have barely come out yet (e.g. west coast) << yes that is true. according to stats page id say 4-5 is the average number based on respondents <that sounds more realistic, and I bet even that might be a little high if you factor response bias

<I'd been told before that going into thanksgiving with ~4 is a good position, but I am doubting that based on this sheet <don't << ? what do you mean, those of us with <4 are doing worse, or 4 is the good cutoff before thanksgiving because 50% of programs have released their interviews? <sorry, what I meant was that having 4 going into Thanksgiving is a good position and to not doubt that based on the sheet

< It's totally separate (don't get to rank both unless you get both interviews)<ok thanks too bad

why harvard?

Ego only. Not interested in covering all the hospitals or cosults honestly

so much truth

people like you ruin dermatology. Don't go into the field if you don't actually want to work x3

You need to chill out. If you want work, why don't you go into internal med or surgery. Or try construction. People like the good lifestyle in derm and there's nothing wrong with that.

x2 lots of us have great work ethics but also realize where it's necessary vs not <<< this is why derm gets a bad rep

<< Any program that makes me a dermatologist x6

Upenn!! The oldest program in the nation, huge department under one umbrella (unlike Harvard), Philly is on the affordable side of NE cities and theres a reason its #1 on doximity, because residents love it there!

< Penn resident spotted< nah but I did an away :)

lol an "away" << ?? i know someone that did an away at UPenn.

LOL sure. "away" haha << do you really think that residens have the time or the interest to post here? Lol you are way over your heads

NYU would be a dream. Cant beat NYC, diverse population and exposure to private derm in the most competitive market << I hope you don't match with that kind of thought << OP- What kind of thought? Thankfully you dont decide my future lol

< that's why Columbia's my dream. :)

<Really excited about the Columbia interview! Any info about this program in terms of resident happiness, perception of the program, etc.?

no x2

osteopathic tab

thanks

so stupid to be separated, PLEASE PUT ALL THE DERM PROGRAMS UNDER THE SAME TAB!!!

well, separated helps us DOs a bit cuz tbh we have very little chance at MD programs, so no point in really using the main invite tab <preach X100

What's a soft invite ^

regional and because my PD knows their PD

< I may be outing myself, but do you go to harvard and are you talking about BU? << I know who you are now ;)

< yeah if i went to Harvard i wouldnt panic. no, not from there at all lol

< LOL ok sorry!

<was there another invite that was posted? i saw some comments and then it got deleted. i couldn't see which program it was though

I think someone was just trolling

someone was typing either an invite or new message and some asshole deleted the entire row

could have been by accident

how do you delete an entire row by accident? x2

Also, if you make a new row, it will copy the color of the one below it. So to help decrease everyone's anxiety, just quickly change the color from green to white. You can also prepare your response in notepad/word/email/whatever, and copy and paste in

<really annoying that people are trolling. this is a place to help one another and allow us to know where we stand. grow up. x4

yes but it's also not a place to be condescending, like you are being in your comment. x2

snowflake

i only troll when there's no serious information to be posted, like in the harvard box below - meme << that's disrespectful to many people and counter-productive to what we are tryiing to accomplish here

not OP but you must be really sensitive and unable to take a joke if that ONE box on spreadsheet of him attempting to add some levity to the situation "disrespected" you. geez

not OP either, but can everyone stop trying to be a moral police here? Everyone is such a sensitive SNOWFLAKE

Disagree with the snowflake bit, but agree with the sentiment. << i am so sad that these people who are so uppity over a single box of jokes might be my coresident. - meme

can you create a meme of people laughing at snowflakes? << yes but i think i will not call them snowflakes, here - meme >>

Let's all just be friends, snowflakes :D x2

LOL THIS x100099999

hahahahhaa

i actually super appreciate rejections being sent out at the same time as invites

what does the rejection email look like?

direct quote: "you suck, your application sucks, maybe in another life" <x2

jk it was nicer but similar

Anyone know how many Harvard students applying this year?

No idea about specifics, but it's been pretty consistently around 10 per year. <anyone waiting in limbo for harvard?

< Am I the only rotator who got rejected?! Guess my application AND my personality sucks! /s but not really

they definitely do NOT interview all their rotators. That’s why I didn’t go.x2

My PD specified not to rotate here for an interview since it does not change you chances alot.

That's probably true and good advice from your PD!

PD from which program? x2 was that your PDs personal opinion or did he / she talk to / know someone in the department?

Any HMS students or people who took a research year there get rejected? I heard they interview all their internals + researchers

I'm not sure if any got rejected this year, but they do not automatically interview all internals and researchers

I've never heard of one who didn't get interviewed

Anyone heard of someone getting an interview after a rejection? Or is trickle only for limbo status? <only limbo or WL, rejection is final

congrats! how many interviews does Harvard usually give out?

~30 << not true

more? less?

def more. they have 8ish spots. << wahhhhh I wanted this one!!!

probably closer to 60 invitations

seems like a lot. their yield is probably high <lol no WAY is it 60

It's probably the same as most other programs, ~40. But if you look at the match list from last year, for example, not a single person on that list wasn't connected in some strong way. So likely applicants are ranked before interviews and it doesn't change much after interviews.

Fake news. Not everyone last year was connected to the program

Who wasn't? x2

Even the non-Harvard rotators had gone to Harvard for undergrad << This.

This also applies to Penn. x2 << Basically applies to every top program in the country

Based on my extensive sleuthing, it 100% applies to Harvard, Penn, and Yale. As in you're SOL if you don't have a strong connection of some kind. To a much lesser degree, it applies to Stanford and UCSF

Definitely less with UCSF since they don't have an undergraduate college :)

but you have to have CA ties

Stanford and UCSF to a much lesser degree yes, but CA ties are almost required

disagree no california ties and got UCSF

aren't you a special cookie? We're talking about people who matched, not interview invites you snowflake

I was going to say what this person to the left said, but not as rudely. Yes I'm talking about people who MATCH, not get invited for an interview.

lol got it. thanks for the non-rudeness person #2 i get what ur saying<<what exactly do strong connections mean for these top programs? Like regional, rotating there etc?

reposting from edit history:

congrats superstars!!! are any of you external without any connection/away?

myself x5

that's so awesome, congrats friend!

thank you amigo/a!

Are you guys from other top schools though or have 260+ Step scores? There must be some method to this madness, it can feel so random sometimes x2

I think if it were just 260+ they would still have a lot of work to do to pick candidates. Doubt a place like HMS has to go just based off stats to pick their bunch.

Not true, there's only around 40 applicants with step 1 scores > 260 and they likely interview around 40 candidates" >> as an interviewee, I can tell you the assumptions above are not true x4

what assumption? x2<<needing 260+ step scores.

<hey guys is harvard a good program; first time hearing about it

I think they’re relatively new, I wouldn’t rank personally

yeah my PD asked if its a community program when I mentioned it

My PD didn't recognize the name, is it DO? << I thought it was in the Caribbean, I didn't apply for that reason.

oh SHIT it was spelled with an H in the front; been calling it ARVARD

either way, I think the program is low on brand recognition. who would go there?

yeah the interview date conflicted with a race in my city (which I organized, for just myself) so I declined it

yeah probably not worth the money of flights and hotels, tbh. good call. <I've seen ads for this school inbetween my youtube vids I think

:'D >> Heard Harvard is on probation and might not get accredited next year :/ Pretty poor reputation

LOLOL

Rotated at Harvard. They have overall good breadth of training with MGH, Brigham, BIDMC, few other sites. Lots of research opportunities and seems supported by the department. I found the resident surgical skills, dermatoscopy skills, and skin cancer screening skills were subpar at least in comparison to my home program. The department is great and has lots of leaders in derm - but it has a bit of of a very "old-school" feel with lots of white-haired, Caucasian males at the top of the leadership chain. It definitely has an old-school, East Coast medicine feel. This was sort of a turn off for me. Some of the faculty are primarily research clinicians who work 1/2 day a week in cinic - some of these attendings have really not maintained good clinical skills / not particularly interested in clinical medicine and it clearly showed. The number of faculty is huge - which means many residents don't get a lot of exposure to working 1:1 with a smaller group of faculty (there a few expections - for instance, Kroshinky who runs the inpatient service and is just overall the best person ever). Overall, my take home from my experience there was that Harvard has good training and great research opportunities, but that "prestigious" programs aren't necessarily everyone's preference / despite Harvard's own self-perception as "the holy grail of medicine", you can get similar high-quality of training at other less prestigious institutions.

did you get an interview?

no

oh no! you seem really nice, I'm sorry. thanks for the write up! x 2

< Is Kroshinsky nice? I've heard not as positive comments about her, but I much prefer to believe she's as nice as some people have said. Did you interact with Mostaghimi or Chen while you were there? I thought they are both big on inpatient? Were they nice? << Kroshinsky is a superstar x3

are you 3 internals?

not me. Did a research year with her

oh so you're matching Harvard? ;)

<-- Korshinsky is nice. So is Mostaghimi. I didn't work with Chen.

thank you!

Dr Chen is seriously the nicest person on the planet, encourages even med student autonomy in clinic/inpatient

Have heard conflicting things about Mostaghimi though. Heard he can be hard to get along with from an external rotator there

Are you serious?? Hard to get along with in what way? He seems like he'd be so nice and funny! << seemed judgmental and not very friendly << maybe he just has RBF (resting bitch face lol)?? I really don't want to believe he's not as nice as seems :(

< did your friend who was a rotator recieve an interview? << yup

<< white-haired white dude leadership is a thing at a lot of derm programs.... suprised it's still a thing I thought we were in more modern times

< that would be suprising. do you go to a low tier school? Mid-tier

that was a stupid question on my end. what even is high/mid/low tier? like top 10/40/100 or something? but to harken back to your situation, the only things I can think of that could be adversely affecting you other than being from a "low" tier school would be not taking a research year / limited research or your geographical area. <I agree with you. I can't really think of much else besides geography and below average research. I have read all but one of my letters and they were strong. I really don't know what to do at this point.

I'm sorry, friend. I'm assuming it is then the combination of geography and below avg. research. But I'm also SURE you're going to get interviews. Just hang in there! Nothing else you can do now, and with a 260 you clearly worked hard already.

Yes minus the 260 :D

Glad to have you on my team << 260+ can give you that same "top tier" school curse where some programs may think you're out of their league. Hang in there, we're with you

im <260 but PhD (non-research track) and it doesn't look good. low tier school, did good aways, got LoR, SILENCE, it's crazy that this is happening.

0 interviews at all? <aside from internal no << did you get interviews from your aways?<--any updates for you?

top tier med school, 260+ Step 1, 15 publications, great LORs, 0 interview invitations. I'm devastated

Yooooo that SUCKS. Are there a lot of applicants from your school with your stats or better?

yes. double digit applicants, all similar .

damn I'm at a double digit school with way worse stats...now I know why I'm not getting invites

dang OP of this cell, man I feel for you. That is rough, but there is no way you do not match and get a lump sum of interviews at some point.

TBH, OP, if you're at a Harvard/Yale/Stanford etc. school, chances are you're going to match your home program. You're fine.

As someone from a top school with a top home program, not true. I wish that I could match into my program, but the schools want a residency class filled with the best folks from other great institutions to add influx of new idea, skills, and connections to the class. This is true ESPECIALLY if there are a ton of us.

im really starting to realize how big a factor the # of people applying from my school is

# of people applying is a factor but applicants from top schools are typically safer with fewer invites at top programs compared to non-top school candiates with mid/low tier interviews. Top programs want applicants from top schools so you're competing with a small pool of applicants for all the spots at Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Penn/UCSF etc.

This . If you look at the people in the Y/H/S/P etc. schools, 80% of residents are from that program, 15% from another Y/H/S/P etc., and MAYBE 1-2 a year from a more "random" school—and that person 100% either had a 100th percentile Step 1 score and/or connections. Also, if you look at their match lists from the past couple years, not a SINGLE one of those programs had an unmatched applicant. So not sure why you're "devastated" when you have a 100% chance of matching—and likely at your home or another top program (unless your personality sucks).

Swap out Yale for NYU, and you have the proper list of top programs.

I seriously dont know how this process works. thats insane . <<Not OP (have way lower stats than that lol), but as someone who goes to a top 5 place I can say with fact that there is not a 100% chance. I do not know how all top programs work, but the fact is even though we have more residents than the average program, the number of applicants from our school is greater than th enumber of spots. On top of that, our school does not rank its own first (but yes 1/2 the porgram tends to be our own/research/rotators). It is a top programs and it wants the best from the country. If you look at our match list it looks AMAZING, but it never mentions the people who do not match. I know for the last 3 years, there was 1 or more unmatched derm. We're all in this shit together

<--- I review applications. While there are some programs that highly value Step 1 score -- I think applicants overestimate how much most programs care about these things. I don't think there are any functional differences betweeen applications with a 240 versus 260 on Step 1. Again, the more important differentiators are clinical grades, letters of recommendation, research, and personal statement (probably in that order). << Agreed, and same is true for whether Top/Mid med school

< It's really heartening to know that, thank you! Do you know if most programs feel the same way you and the program you're at does about scores? And what programs really do care a lot about scores?

< does anyone know if school look at clinical grades out of 6 or 7 rotations? (aka including neurology or not?)

omg you're good, if you still want to ask/post, do it!

thanks for the encouragement! i was thinking about what everyone's been saying on here and grappling with my own frustrations, and I think that there are so many valid critiques of this process on here, and many frustrations that deserve to be heard. I also feel encouraged by the development of the calendar that was made via collaboration between programs for this year, and I feel like maybe we can actually affect change! Not for us, but maybe for the next years. I wonder if maybe we could have a tab where we make suggestions for the lurking applicant reviewers/PDs/etc., so that maybe they can improve things in the future? Sorry if that's dumb, please don't relegate me to my own lonely tab.

I personally think that's a great idea!!! I'm sure most of us on here have suggestions, and I'm sure some residents/attendings look at this sheet. Do you want to make a tab? <I made one and titled it "Dear PDs" and I think it's the most direct scariest thing I've ever done! But I'm not trying to be confrontational. Please feel free to rename.

No that's perfect!! I'll post some of my suggestions/ones I've seen on here now, and then people can post theirs too, and we can do the usual x2, x3, etc. to illustrate how many people also feel that specific suggestion would be useful?

Yay that sounds great! Thanks!

wrote the worst run on sentence I ever have in the first box, feel FREE to change to something more understandable lol

I think it's beautifully written! Thank you for doing that! And as a side note, I think it's funny that there was an earlier post about by default everyone sounds like a man on here, but for some reason I get the feeling we're both non-men. I wonder why that is?

Okay so if you look at Sheet Daddy's tab, I suggested the following: 1. % of schools releasing interview invites vs. weeks in the cycle [cumulative] 2. Applicants graphing their number of invites vs. weeks in the cycle so the gods can have their ego stroked and the tricklers can show the rest of us folks their projected path and reduce a ton of stress/anxiety 3. Emphasizing potential randomness of interview - comparatively speaking we're at the top of our med school classes so our stats will be great, but looking at the stats page it's clear some people are literal gods at derm and others might be solidly average applicants. 4. Creating a 'break point' for trickle interview invites where letters of interest should be sent out - I'm thinking Thanksgiving - again, this will prolly be reflected on graphs. i'm also making a 2x2 table of letter of invite success percentage lol 5. AWAY ROTATION UTILITY - some of these programs don't interview rotators and that can be a huge waste of time. Yea you went to Harvard, didn't get a letter and they don't interview rotators, feeling cool? Or, you went somewhere you didn't expect, had a great time, got a letter AND an interview, and now can match there. WOWWWW!

not op, but I'm going to add this to the tab he/she created now! these are all great. i'm glad you think it's great, i was going to do do this anyway and post it on reddit so now maybe i'll have more data too

that sounds awesome!! thanks!!

<< These are awesome suggestions and I love the idea of the sheet! -SD

It's always good to hear from you, SD. I can't help but think there's a bit more panic and despair without you. x2

< OP: I didn't want to make that box any larger than it already is lol, but yes I'm defintely female and I sense you are too? all the exclamation points I use must have given me away :')

I am as well! I think the tip off for me might be the many apologies!

LOL yes that and how supportive you are (not that men can't be supportive)!

Thank you! I really appreciate your initiative on getting the sheet started! Hopefully it will help some people in the future. Not to be too morbid, but I feel kind of like a dwarf in Moria, being closed in on by orcs, leaving a historical account of my story for posterity.

LMAO you have no idea how hard that made me laugh rn :') And of course, but you deserve all the credit for the idea!! I hope it helps others too! << im op of the list and i am a male and i have no idea wtf is going on here

sometimes there are trolls within the mines of moria

I'm the above commentor and I meant OP as in OG OP (A7). Are you B7? Thanks again for the suggestions, and sorry if my comment was confusing! << yes this is B7 and a male, im just gonna chill over here lol

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I called you a troll. I jumped to a terrible conclusion. This is the closest I have ever gotten to an anonymous online fight and I hope I have learned my lesson. Thank you for your suggestions! They are great! Let's find a place to add those metrics! << yea no problem, i just added suggestion #8

lol glad we sorted that out and thanks for #8! :)

normal derm applicant here, <2 interviews and only 1 prelim - my heart goes out to you dude or dudette. F x2

< thanks friend <3 here's hoping the both of us get some love soon.

<<damn didn’t hear back

can someone weigh in what this program is like

Since this is a Beth Israel Deaconess affiliate, is this considered a Harvard TY? Are you gonna get that Harvard seal on your diploma?

< You know, there is the entirety of the West Coast to consider. We're still in business hours << I don't think it's updated to say we're done, just a running tally (the same row is moved up) << just updated it << 10+ person, can you please press CTRL+Z to not erase the field that was there or use the function to get the past entry back << Thank you for reverting it back to original