Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT

stanford come to mind

penn

any program that has a special research resident spot or combined med-derm program. Would also look at programs that take a lot of Mh/PhDs

jhu as well

miami, utsw, ucsf, michigan

sinai?

yale

Idk what specific answer you’re looking for…. Quality research (first-author, novel research, no bullshit case report/research letter) preferably with faculty at a T5 institution, step score >260, amazing clinical LORs, and something cool, non-med/derm hobby or project on the side. Bonus points if you go to a T5 med school. And even after all of this, pray to the Gods. And then be a cool, normal person at interviews.

does it matter if your resesarch is accepted versus submitted-- for example if im first author on a translational work and its just submitted will this be a huge disadvantage

accepted is better than submitted, but at least you can put submitted on eras

my first-author research was accepted super late like a few days prior to start of derm interviews because mentor didn't care and tried to sabotage :/ I had to bring it up in interviews. Probably hurt my overall interviews but helped a lot to secure match.

there is no specific answer. you could try to google or talk to the residents accepted to these programs but even then you might not even know what secret sauce they have lol. but there's most likely something interesting about each one of them (even if it's personal history, prior career outside medicine). or you might know and not even realize what the programs are valuing.

Lol. Connections. I say this as someone that graduated from a top 5 program, matched derm, and watched a bunch of people with basically equivalent applications end up all over the place. You need to ask yourself why you want a top 5 program? What do you hope to gain? You planning on staying in academic derm? No one cares in the end.

what do you mean by non-ivory tower programs... it's derm.

not op, but I strongly dislike this sentiment that some people have. As much as derm is competitive, there ARE ivory programs and non-ivory programs. Harvard, Yale, Penn, UCSF. An example of a non-ivory program: MCW. There will always be stratifications even in the most competitive of things, and these stratifications are always worth keeping in mind when you can only apply to 28 programs

ivory tower is a meaningless label, the earlier you learn that the better off you'll be

ivory tower is a meaningless label, the earlier you learn that the better off you'll be>>> yeah a ton of harvard/penn/ucsf grades end up going into private practice...

umm, yes ivory tower doesn't mean better training, but it is considered prestigious and harder to match. OP isn't asking about ivory tower programs, they're asking about non-ivory programs, so your "the earlier you learn" comment comes off as not helpful and condescending

this whole let's not talk about the T10 things is weird and comes off as gatekeepy. These programs exist and people will still be applying to them. Besides, I agree with the previous commenter, OP is asking about non-ivory tower/community programs. No need to step up on y'all's soapbox

When I rotated at Orange Park they had MD residents from UMiami and UCLA. But I know at least the UMiami grad rotated there and they seem to highly prefer their rotators.

yep the bottle neck is forming so scary

how accurate is the internals tab though?

we had 8 internals last year, can confirm only 4 matched, still not good but not quite as terrible. maybe the 12 number was including people who did RYs here?

there were actually 9 internals and one reapp from last year

oh interesting, but the reapp matched right? at least the one i'm aware of

well, there were actually 12 internals, but 3 of them decided to swich out at the last minute even after doing their derm rotationand technically did not apply, but its essentially 4/12 since they switched bc they could not match.

can confirm

thats surprising. my mid-tier school has had a higher match rate the last 3 years ( = or

applicants). do you think all these students are gunning for top programs and get unlucky?

usually YSM has done better, like one or 2 unmatched out of anywhere from 5-15, this was (hopefully) an outlier year and the department is really gearing up to try to help us better this year

damn

i can't compute 10+ people from 1 institution applying, how can there be enough support/research to go around? even at T20s

we are lucky to have lots of active researchers here (Yale) and some people are always MD PhD so they kind of have a different path> yeah not all T20's have the support. It's crazy at my school

It's kind of crazy since the med school is very small too lol

yeah but the department should mb stop taking research fellows from other schools until the department manages to match all the students that actually go to yale

go WashU. no debt is huge

WashU is also a really great school and I think the stress of loans hanging over your head makes you a less happy person in general, affecting all facets of your life. Unless you have other reasons to go to yale, I think you could make derm either way! At the level of washU vs yale, matchign derm really depends on you and your personality and motavation to be a good student and researcher! I also recommend you stay off the spreadsheets at least until your M4 year. congrats on the A and go enjoy your spring!

$140k is not a ton in the grand scheme of things. Wouldn't get too hung up or stressed over that. If it makes you feel better, I'm at like $700k 😂 it could always be worse lmfao. One thing I'd compel you to consider is that at Yale you'll be ranked against other competitive applicants whereas you may have a higher class rank at WashU! Also keep in mind tons of people at ivy leagues applying derm don't make it. I don't know that going to Yale will truly be better for your app

agree with this last part, I don't know if it will be better for your app (derm resident here)

WashU doesnt have class ranks (huge pro) and the students are just as competitive academically

$140k of debt is not that much but both WashU and Yale are phenomenal programs. That being said, I'd probably pick Yale personally, just because I like the program better... depends on how much the debt means to you

Hi, congrats on your acceptances! Truly wishing that you make the best decision for what you need. Absolutely, the cost/loans matter. But if you're dead set on derm, I'd highly recommend you consider Yale. WashU's derm match last year was insane, but that was a fluke. WashU has a difficult time matching anywhere outside the Midwest (especially in derm), and our previous years' data have been meh and don't even tell you the number of students who did not match derm or matched to the second specialty they applied into. Yale is stronger academically, particularly for derm. If you are open to considering other specialties (ENT, plastics, ortho, etc.), by all means, come to WashU; these departments have excellent research and mentorship -- not derm. I wish someone would have warned me, so I make it my job to tell everyone else.

I'm the OP. After seeing this, i think i am going to choose yale... i am really deadset on derm (fav specialty by far, and i dont imagine myself switching), and i think ill be able to pay off the debt anyway. thanks.

you should ask how yale derm match went this year (spoiler: not well)

wait can you clarify, why didn't yale derm match go well LOL (Im OP).

Yo I'm OP, can the previous commenter talk about how Yale match went this year? what % matched approximately? i heard there were a ton of internal candidates.> ya how do you know how it went this year already?

because people talk and they already know if they matched or not

were there a ton of unmatched applicants from Yale this year?

Yes. idk ask your yale friend, and also get off this spreadsheet

seriously LMAO get off

More people went unmatched than matched applying into dermatology from Yale this year… just fyi. Last year they also had a few go unmatched.

Save the money - both amazing schools. If you're committed to derm you will make it happen either way. Financial freedom is so underrated

UCSF

Desireable location is literally impossible to define. Some people will call Texas desireable. Others New York. Only you can evaluate.

edited to clarify

from what ive heard cornell is chillest in nyc

Yale (small city but liberal)

UCSF> lmfao chill and ucsf do not go together

University of Minnesota :)

What about UCSD? Seems chill and San Diego is amazing

UCSD?

stanford not in a city, but close to SF and definitely chill

UT Austin! (Not a lot of cosmetic training tho)

The best one is the one you like the most (+/- the one in the city you like the most)

This obsession with T5s, jeez. If it makes you happy, great! At the end of the day you will be a dermatologis though. People from not T5s end up as faculty at T5s all the time, and many T5 residents end up going into private practice.

yes, stanford in there too. there are really 6 T5 programs.

if you care about prestige... i wish you well

0/7 is insane. yale was something like 4/10

its a public state med school so maybe that's why but still crazy

0/7 sucks. Yale was somethign like 4/10. Its just the way it is

yeah it's a public state school Michigan State

as a derm resident, in your case my advice would be to try to do as many away as you possibly can. Prepare the best CV and apply to aways on day 1 and try to do 3-4+ ideally

The new derm landscape is basically home + away is where the vast majority of people match, and even then, there's far more home+away applicants to programs than there are spots. The truth is that the current system for derm is broken, and until things change the reality is great applicants will go unmatched every year.

every competitive field is like this in the real world

"The new derm landscape is basically home + away is where the vast majority of people match" --- Honestly, that's the way Derm has lalways been, for the most part. It's a seller's market.

I don't think this is true. The PD at Penn is VERY clear they DO NOT do post II communication. he feels very strongly about it

same with UCSF's PD..> the whole thing strikes me as BS especially with the earlier link to an article with a paid mentoring service

I know people who got rtm calls from penn pd

sure buddy

I heard people who got Pen was for tracks and not by PD

100% serious that I know schools that do post-ii communications/rtm calls when they tell everyone that they are hellbent on no post-ii communication. Just beacuse a PD says it does not mean they won't do it experiencing this gave me trust issues tbh lol

PD's will do anything to get the best of the best, RTM calls happen because programs are selfish

well at least i know i'm not the best of the best yeee

I matched at one of the programs listed above, no RTM call. This rtm thing was absolute bs

historically no

brb crying

well there goes my hopes and dreams

lol get real>does yale do RTM?>fuck

I know for a fact that at least one of the top 5 do not do RTM (current student)

I think Yale does bc i know someone who got one last year

Just out of curiosity were they internal candidates?

no but i think they sent a LOI

harvard does not do rtm calls

u guys all need versed omfg relax

I can't remember what the theme was, but there was another room I thought was way harder

yes! but "teamwork" room was worse. not an enjoyable day for me lol

omg yesss it was the teamwork room that got me

My best room

https://pathology.med.upenn.edu/education/residency/logistics/salary-benefits; https://medicine.yale.edu/surgery/education/residencies/otolaryngology/salary/

per month?

brownie points per second

Penn State, Northwestern, Yale (kind of), Georgetown, Ohio State, Brown, Cleveland Clinic, UPMC, UTHSC (tennessee), Zucker/Northwell, Emory, Mizzou, WVU, Dartmouth

wait I didn't know about Northwestern, are we sure?

Exact wording: "We are very excited to welcome you to the Northwestern University combined Medicine-Dermatology interviews, which also serves as interviews for either the categorical Medicine and/or advanced Dermatology tracks, if you have applied to either of those Northwestern programs. "

northwestern med derm counts for prelim.

Penn state does??

yes Penn state does, presented to us on interview day

what about northwestern regular Derm/peds derm> NW med derm counts for advanced derm NW position + med derm position. NOT prelim. You can ask to be considered for categorical IM, but that was not guaranteed by just applying.