Boston, MA
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Me. NY resident, didn't do med school in NY, but literally did an away rotation with a LOR from a NY school. No NYU, no Columbia. <<Me. Georgetown. Lived in DC for 4 years << Me. From the Midwest no U of M, Iowa, or Wisconsin! <<Feel that one bruh. x5 << Same, also no Arizona or New Mexico #cool . << 18 years in Texas and no TX programs yet (holding on to hope). From Mexico, no offer from New Mexico!
Historically about 16-18 << only? doesn't Harvard interview like 30-40?
It's been historically low. Want to say less than 40, maybe closer to 20-30).
could I ask where you got this figure from?
My memory, I matched a couple of years ago. I didn't interview there but I had friends who did.
why are you still checking this spreadsheet lol
speak for yourself, man, I appreciate wisdom from the elders
OP here, thanks.. I'm still here because I actually want to help lol
where are you for residency?
Midwest, big program. Want to maintain some anonymity still I guess.
thank you for being here OP
I've heard it's common in derm for programs to interview ~10 applicants per spot but that the very elite programs often interview fewer. Someone last year told me Harvard was ~5 per spot
It is not that low! People post ridiculous stuff on here. Last year Stanford interviewed 40.
<so even new programs like st lukes fully matched but not tufts or colorado? wth
I bet the new programs interview a ton of people to ensure they don't go unmatched. Like maybe 20:1 vs normally programs are 10:1. CU only had like 4?:1
feel like that still doesn't make sense tho right? like UNC interviews 5:1 and I think of them similarly to colorado. just a strange ass situation << Sometimes programs overshoot and interview all 260+ AOA from top 10 schools who all end up at Harvard or UCSF. That's probably what happened to DEnver
yeah also if they did only interview 19 people and have 6 spots then they're closer to 3:1
wow 3:1!? that's.... not a smart move.
this situation is just super unlucky and unfortunate because it confirms a program's worst fear and will discourage programs next year from saving everyone time and money by interviewing fewer applicants/spot
it was an insanely low number of interviews... do 1:5 if you are so confident (which a lot of the ivy leagues do), not 1:3. that's literally idiotic << Not even the top 5 could get away with a 1:3 ratio... Agreed 1:5 is the lowest even the best programs should drop to
St. Lukes Interviewed 120 people for 2 spots, It was impossible for them not to match
LOL WHAT << They thought they would get approved for 4 spots, so they did 120 which is 30:1, then a month ago they sent an email saying "sike" we just have 2 spots <- interviewed there and got such bad vibes from the program. DNR. <- just curious what your bad vibes were, as I also interviewed there but didn't see any red flags except for them being brand new
< someone deleted the #1 ranks for UCSF. What was it last? <I think it was the same as Stanford, so I made it 5
agreed
<Get it together people!
Yeah can we please stop being so uncool now that ranks are in and any of your motivations to be a troll are gone! honestly, it's probably not us. more likely to be the program itself...<why would they even care, I'm sure they have more important things to do
um, we live for this juicy shit too
LOL @ a program being petty enough to come in and change it to 100 ppl ranked it 1
not that one
<hilarious how there are 20 more 1st ranks than 2nd and 3rd. I guess its all those people that only got one interview and it happened to be Stanfrod, Harvard or another top program. smh. I'm losing faith in my future colleagues...
I highly doubt that. People are probably just not filling in their top 2 and 3 bc they're mostly concerned with getting their number 1. I initially only filled out 1 and 2 out of laziness. Not sure if your comment was a joke or not... but most of those people have more than 3 interviews. <it was sarcasm
ah, very dry.
<was there another invite that was posted? i saw some comments and then it got deleted. i couldn't see which program it was though
I think someone was just trolling
someone was typing either an invite or new message and some asshole deleted the entire row
could have been by accident
how do you delete an entire row by accident? x2
Also, if you make a new row, it will copy the color of the one below it. So to help decrease everyone's anxiety, just quickly change the color from green to white. You can also prepare your response in notepad/word/email/whatever, and copy and paste in
<really annoying that people are trolling. this is a place to help one another and allow us to know where we stand. grow up. x4
yes but it's also not a place to be condescending, like you are being in your comment. x2
snowflake
i only troll when there's no serious information to be posted, like in the harvard box below - meme << that's disrespectful to many people and counter-productive to what we are tryiing to accomplish here
not OP but you must be really sensitive and unable to take a joke if that ONE box on spreadsheet of him attempting to add some levity to the situation "disrespected" you. geez
not OP either, but can everyone stop trying to be a moral police here? Everyone is such a sensitive SNOWFLAKE
Disagree with the snowflake bit, but agree with the sentiment. << i am so sad that these people who are so uppity over a single box of jokes might be my coresident. - meme
can you create a meme of people laughing at snowflakes? << yes but i think i will not call them snowflakes, here - meme >>
Let's all just be friends, snowflakes :D x2
LOL THIS x100099999
hahahahhaa
Krispy kreme and video games.... But also got rejected for med school and undergrad, hurts less every time
Oof, the last time I got an interview at Harvard was for the college. And rejected at that too. Still stings, even after a decade. I wish my head could let things go. headspace.com helps a lot
<< lmao its me again from the bottom cells, i work out 6 days a week now, and post a ton of memes here. also teaching myselff some basic life skills so that i doont die in intern year
< For harvard just look at the Boston temp and all of the different locations you would have to bounce between. << i did a rotation in NYC and this applies to the NYC schools as well. ~1 hour times between their satellites.
and in san fran, $4000 gets you a studio apartment! lol
<- I think you have to tell yourself (and to some extent believe) that everything happens for a reason. You didn't get interview at the programs you wanted, but honestly maybe you wouldn't have been happy there to begin with. So really it's just saving you time/energy/money wasted. At least that's what I tell myself
yea i've been trying to do this too
bruh, SLC is one of the most desirable locations in the US. It's kind of like Austin/Nashville/Denver where it hasn't always been a hot spot like Boston/San Fran/NYC, but young people have been flocking there in recent years. TBH though, SLC is still not a great place to live if you are a minority. And don't be fooled by how "progressive" it is. It's smack in the middle of mormon country. Great skiing though. anyone know how progressive SLC is? what is a desirable city for certain demographics may not be as welcoming for others <-- There is actually a pretty strong LGBT community in SLC.
Utah is amazing!
Utah is terrible. It would be foolish to rank it. Also why are we wasting time talking about non-top 5 programs? --- Utah is solid top ~10-15 program which is still very good even if it's not Harvard. Also Utah is okay, but Salt Lake City is incredible
you're really sabotaging my misinformation about Utah campaign << Sorry my bad :(
Did an away and grew up in SLC: If you like the outdoors, then it is a great place to train. People are generally nice. Relatively low crime. Not very much diversity if that is something important to you. Interestingly, one of the largest dermatology faculties in the nation, yet probably the least diverse. You might argue that this is reflective of the population of Utah, but other specialties at the U are WAY more diverse than derm. Some of this could be blamed on lack of diversity in derm as a whole and difficulty recruiting minorities to Utah, but come on... Not a single brown or black person on faculty of 40-50. Pretty shameful. << this. not having a brown or black person as a faculty in derm is not uncommon even in diverse/big programs... <examples?
utah is amazing!! my favorite state!
Top tier: UPenn Harvard UCSF NYU Mayo Michigan, Emory, Henry Ford?) and Michigan and Mayo are not top tier. Would add Stanford, Hopkins, and UCLA instead)
would also add UTSW https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/article/157864/practice-management/us-dermatology-residency-program-rankings-based/page/0/1 <<what is the difference between this article and the doximity rankings? Is there more validity to one vs the other? << lol, someone put UCLA in top tier (UCLA isn't even a Department, it's a Division) >> lol UCLA low tier for sure << realistically, probably middle to low, great overall health system but will always have hands tied and no real ability to grow
UCLA is a solid program, strong surgical training, lacks the super complex patients of some more intense programs but it depends on what you are looking for in your training << I don't think anyone's saying it's a bad program, just not a top tier, that's kind of silly
UCLA is the perfect example of a low-to-mid tier program that is nonetheless quite competitive given it's in California. Again, there's often a disconnect between prestige/quality of training and competitiveness. Location, location, location.
No way that Hopkins and UCLA would be top tier over Michigan and Mayo
Mid-tier: OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota, UPMC >> Would probably put MN as low tier? >> Thoughts? Why? >> Minnesota would probably be in same tier as OHSU, Iowa, UPMC. Iowa has great faculty, but I think it does suffer from being in a relatively non-diverse, predominately white, smallish-city in Iowa. Minnesota, OHSU, and UPMC are in more urban environments with at least UPMC and Minnesota having more ethnic / racial diversity, (Portland is super white as well). Also, no one should trust that MDedge nonsense x5
To be fair they tried to make an objective measure. Many of the opinions here leave out some good programs and add in top medical schools that are not top derm programs
MN, Iowa as med-high tier? Would drop UPMC to low tier (just feel like no residents really enjoy it there but maybe that's just me lol)? And Iowa usually as a top 20 program on almost all ranking systems (though you cant always trust these things so who knows). I think its one of those places that suffers in many peoples minds because they have a not-so great med school and its in the mid west, but the derm program is actually extremely well-respected independednt of those facts
1. Penn 2. UCSF 3. NYU 4. Harvard 5. Stanford 6. Northwestern 7. Emory 8. UTSW 9. Hopkins 10. Wash U 11. Mayo 12. Michigan 13. Iowa 14. HF 15. OHSU 16. Colorado 17. Minnesota 18. Utah 19. Cornell 20. Vanderbilt
<-What is this list based on? Its totally inaccurate. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are mid tier programs at best. No Yale? No UW? No Wisconsin? No Miami? No Sinai? Cornell over Columbia? UPMC is definitely mid to top tier. Also, tiers maybe, but I dont understand how you can possibly rank 1 vs. 3 vs. 8 off the cuff << yeah, 1-3 is pretty standard, gets messy with next 5 I was about to post how accurate this list is. Some of the programs listed above are no way in the conversation. You can maybe disagree with Wash U/Cornell to the left tho. I'd agree Vanderbilt too high too
<Yale for sure. x4 . Think that list is pretty accurate for top 20 minus Wash U, Cornell, and Vanderbilt. Would replace with Yale and Columbia. And Cleveland Clinic maybe. <<I question the order of some of these too. Hopkins is not a top 10 (but it is a top 20 probably). I agree that Sinai, miami, Columbia would also be top 20. Vandy should not be on that list and neither should a few others.
<How good are the following programs: UPMC, Hopkins, UCSD, Miami.
I think those are all decent programs (mid-top tier?). I would say that I typically view Hopkins as a mid-tier program (they don't have a lot of diversity in terms of training sites, though Hopkins itself is a great hospital). Miami is typically considered a Top 10 program - but they also are quite disorganized, old facilities, longer hours (Saturday clinics). UPMC takes a lot of MD/PhDs and has great Mohs training, though I never found their program actually attracts people who want to be there. UCSD is solid, somewhat basic-science focused. It's outshined by other programs in California (e.g. Stanford, UCSF, USC) and San Diego has great weather / beaches, though admittedly isn't the most exciting place to live / lacks a lot of arts / culture compared to most bigger cities in the United States.
name me a state with better Mexican food tho
stanford << disagree. Residents talked more with each other than with applicants during the resident dinner lol -- just goes to show how tight knit and happy of a group they are. (or how little they actually see of each other)
I thought the people at Harvard were fantastic x2.
The Harvard residents are super shady. They have secret hang-outs but dont invite the residents that arent "cool" enough. Serious mean girls shit. Lol. Very clique-y.
Wait where did you hear this? FAKE NEWSSSSS << I didn't "hear" it. I experienced it. If you don't believe me, go confront one of the "popular" residents about it.
LOL love how in the cell to the left Stanford residents are called tight knit and happy for sticking together and Harvard residents are called cliquey
If you feel "left out" by the residency class, maybe you're the weird one
harsh lol
Penn > UCSF > Stanford = Harvard >> all others . (x2 though I did not go to one of these, I have the same order for the other 3, but it varies alot with who you happened to talk to) ^sounds like someone's desperate to go to Harvard/UCSF/Stanford : )
haha I agree with this order, and I am ranking Penn 1. If people are actually trying to alter ranks by these orders, that is kinda sad....if it works that's even more sad lol
UCSF and Penn were my favorites x5 <- damn lol, you guys are very lucky to have interviewed at both
didn't interview at UCSF, but had the other 4 "top 5" programs and agree Penn residents seem closest. I would put NYU up there as well
utsw residents were chill! did not expect that x2
very pleasant surprise. The program moved up on my list based on the people there which I was not expecting
Hopkins residents were so fun and nice! x3
Nothing’s a total dealbreaker but no CC means a huge lack of autonomy and a rough transition to reality
There has got to be a qualitative difference between CCs, though. You'd learn a lot more if the patients were specifically put on your schedule and you had to do all the call-backs / follow-ups for this patient vs patients being assigned to the attending, and you observe how the attending manages the patient
I think having continuty clinic is pretty important. Harvard doesnt have a real CC for example, and it went lower on my rank list (for that reason and a few other reasons)
Is this a Harvrd trickle? Who would drop a Harvard interview?
you'd be surprised
Possibly someone couple's matching or they're sick?
or they dont want to be running all over cold ass Boston as a Harvard resident.
I would run all over cold ass boston naked to be a resident there x2 i would do the former all while eating a poop hotdog to be there <-- make it 3 poop hot dogs and I'd stil be in
Massachusetts native chiming in to say, it's really NOT that cold! California is constantly about to break away and fall into the ocean OR on fire. If you've ever experienced a humid AF Southern summer, you'd know that running around Atlanta or Nashville in that heat will at best leave you a sweaty mess and at worse just kill you. During an away in tornado country, ppl casually told me that if one happened i should get in the bathtub and pull a mattress over me. I was like....so they're gonna find my body in the narrow ass hallway crushed under a full sized mattress?? I'll take my cold and snow. Also, get a good parka and it's like you're sitting by a warm fire all the time. <--- Agreed, I would take some cold winters over the hot muggy sumemrs down south any day. << lol that you think Atlanta and Nashville are hot. Those are mild compared to the rest of the south << like I said, I'm a Massachusetts native and I'd melt in Florida
Anyone know how many applicants interview for Med-Derm positions? For NW, Penn, Harvard, etc.?
< thank you!!
Uhh yah probably 95% of us
don't think it's that high
Let's say 800 people apply... they probably interview 40-50 so max they're inteviewing is 5% of candidates... no? I mean ball park << when you say AND, you're multiplying stats right, so im going to assume that at least 90% of people missed out on all of Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, AND Penn
So to make this simpler, what are the chances of getting an interview at one the top 5, say UCSF, Harvard, Stanford, NYU, and Penn?
how many people do you think get all 5 of the top 5 places? 4/5? 3/5?
~10%, ~12%, ~15% respectively I'd say? ---- Probably 15-20 people get 5/5 for the top 5. I've realized that it's mostly the same people getting all the top 10 interviews." <- coming from one of these schools i can tell you that this is not the case and the number with all 5 is much fewer.
I'm sure there are some godly people out there with all of the top 5 plus the next top 5, and ideally they will drop some of them for the rest of us :p<<<guilty :) but have trickled many invites so wishing everyone the best of luck
sigh managed to get NYU/harvard/stanford/UCSF...and no penn...and ive lived near penn my whole life. idk what went wrong there, was my top choice
< that would be suprising. do you go to a low tier school? Mid-tier
that was a stupid question on my end. what even is high/mid/low tier? like top 10/40/100 or something? but to harken back to your situation, the only things I can think of that could be adversely affecting you other than being from a "low" tier school would be not taking a research year / limited research or your geographical area. <I agree with you. I can't really think of much else besides geography and below average research. I have read all but one of my letters and they were strong. I really don't know what to do at this point.
I'm sorry, friend. I'm assuming it is then the combination of geography and below avg. research. But I'm also SURE you're going to get interviews. Just hang in there! Nothing else you can do now, and with a 260 you clearly worked hard already.
Yes minus the 260 :D
Glad to have you on my team << 260+ can give you that same "top tier" school curse where some programs may think you're out of their league. Hang in there, we're with you
im <260 but PhD (non-research track) and it doesn't look good. low tier school, did good aways, got LoR, SILENCE, it's crazy that this is happening.
0 interviews at all? <aside from internal no << did you get interviews from your aways?<--any updates for you?
top tier med school, 260+ Step 1, 15 publications, great LORs, 0 interview invitations. I'm devastated
Yooooo that SUCKS. Are there a lot of applicants from your school with your stats or better?
yes. double digit applicants, all similar .
damn I'm at a double digit school with way worse stats...now I know why I'm not getting invites
dang OP of this cell, man I feel for you. That is rough, but there is no way you do not match and get a lump sum of interviews at some point.
TBH, OP, if you're at a Harvard/Yale/Stanford etc. school, chances are you're going to match your home program. You're fine.
As someone from a top school with a top home program, not true. I wish that I could match into my program, but the schools want a residency class filled with the best folks from other great institutions to add influx of new idea, skills, and connections to the class. This is true ESPECIALLY if there are a ton of us.
im really starting to realize how big a factor the # of people applying from my school is
# of people applying is a factor but applicants from top schools are typically safer with fewer invites at top programs compared to non-top school candiates with mid/low tier interviews. Top programs want applicants from top schools so you're competing with a small pool of applicants for all the spots at Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Penn/UCSF etc.
This . If you look at the people in the Y/H/S/P etc. schools, 80% of residents are from that program, 15% from another Y/H/S/P etc., and MAYBE 1-2 a year from a more "random" school—and that person 100% either had a 100th percentile Step 1 score and/or connections. Also, if you look at their match lists from the past couple years, not a SINGLE one of those programs had an unmatched applicant. So not sure why you're "devastated" when you have a 100% chance of matching—and likely at your home or another top program (unless your personality sucks).
Swap out Yale for NYU, and you have the proper list of top programs.
I seriously dont know how this process works. thats insane . <<Not OP (have way lower stats than that lol), but as someone who goes to a top 5 place I can say with fact that there is not a 100% chance. I do not know how all top programs work, but the fact is even though we have more residents than the average program, the number of applicants from our school is greater than th enumber of spots. On top of that, our school does not rank its own first (but yes 1/2 the porgram tends to be our own/research/rotators). It is a top programs and it wants the best from the country. If you look at our match list it looks AMAZING, but it never mentions the people who do not match. I know for the last 3 years, there was 1 or more unmatched derm. We're all in this shit together
<--- I review applications. While there are some programs that highly value Step 1 score -- I think applicants overestimate how much most programs care about these things. I don't think there are any functional differences betweeen applications with a 240 versus 260 on Step 1. Again, the more important differentiators are clinical grades, letters of recommendation, research, and personal statement (probably in that order). << Agreed, and same is true for whether Top/Mid med school
< It's really heartening to know that, thank you! Do you know if most programs feel the same way you and the program you're at does about scores? And what programs really do care a lot about scores?
< does anyone know if school look at clinical grades out of 6 or 7 rotations? (aka including neurology or not?)
Okay so if you look at Sheet Daddy's tab, I suggested the following: 1. % of schools releasing interview invites vs. weeks in the cycle [cumulative] 2. Applicants graphing their number of invites vs. weeks in the cycle so the gods can have their ego stroked and the tricklers can show the rest of us folks their projected path and reduce a ton of stress/anxiety 3. Emphasizing potential randomness of interview - comparatively speaking we're at the top of our med school classes so our stats will be great, but looking at the stats page it's clear some people are literal gods at derm and others might be solidly average applicants. 4. Creating a 'break point' for trickle interview invites where letters of interest should be sent out - I'm thinking Thanksgiving - again, this will prolly be reflected on graphs. i'm also making a 2x2 table of letter of invite success percentage lol 5. AWAY ROTATION UTILITY - some of these programs don't interview rotators and that can be a huge waste of time. Yea you went to Harvard, didn't get a letter and they don't interview rotators, feeling cool? Or, you went somewhere you didn't expect, had a great time, got a letter AND an interview, and now can match there. WOWWWW!
not op, but I'm going to add this to the tab he/she created now! these are all great. i'm glad you think it's great, i was going to do do this anyway and post it on reddit so now maybe i'll have more data too
that sounds awesome!! thanks!!
<< These are awesome suggestions and I love the idea of the sheet! -SD
It's always good to hear from you, SD. I can't help but think there's a bit more panic and despair without you. x2
< OP: I didn't want to make that box any larger than it already is lol, but yes I'm defintely female and I sense you are too? all the exclamation points I use must have given me away :')
I am as well! I think the tip off for me might be the many apologies!
LOL yes that and how supportive you are (not that men can't be supportive)!
Thank you! I really appreciate your initiative on getting the sheet started! Hopefully it will help some people in the future. Not to be too morbid, but I feel kind of like a dwarf in Moria, being closed in on by orcs, leaving a historical account of my story for posterity.
LMAO you have no idea how hard that made me laugh rn :') And of course, but you deserve all the credit for the idea!! I hope it helps others too! << im op of the list and i am a male and i have no idea wtf is going on here
sometimes there are trolls within the mines of moria
I'm the above commentor and I meant OP as in OG OP (A7). Are you B7? Thanks again for the suggestions, and sorry if my comment was confusing! << yes this is B7 and a male, im just gonna chill over here lol
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I called you a troll. I jumped to a terrible conclusion. This is the closest I have ever gotten to an anonymous online fight and I hope I have learned my lesson. Thank you for your suggestions! They are great! Let's find a place to add those metrics! << yea no problem, i just added suggestion #8
lol glad we sorted that out and thanks for #8! :)
Some posts are shown because their comments mention this program.
Me. Born in Boston, went to Harvard, no interview from Harvard << Harvard hasn't gone out yet? Do you mean pre-lim? x2. Prelim <<I got harvard prelims with no connections, but did not get my home program's prelim...its pointless to try to make sense of it