Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA-IL

the system is trickle, gimme dem invites! but seriously i dont know why schools do this, i guess its their way of filtering out even more candidates...<<i guess but then they miss out on some really great applicants that might have gone there. for example, i literally couldnt choose between two schools on those dates, so i just went with the more convenient flight option. Not because i liked one school more than the other....who knows if i would have been a better fit for the other school

man i feel for you, im not saying its right or anything.

I feel for UConn and Maryland internals/rotators. Only given 1 date << can you imagine if you rotated at both, and then had to pick between invites at JHU, UCSF, Northwestern, UC-Davis, UMiami, Mayo-AZ?<<that was me, i had to pick between ucsf, northwestern, mayo AZ, Davis, and hopkins <goals x3

i would love to have those problems

I hate the overlap especially since I have had to pick even though I only have 5 invites. However, with people going to 15+ or 20+ interviews, I'm glad they do this to force a little trickle. << problem is for some of us we already got rejected from these programs, so even if the spots are now open...it won't be to us :(

As someone with far more rejections than invites, we have to accept that those were not for us.

<<congrats!<<x2

are the dates full?

hard to say b/c you email the coordinator the dates you want

Is this a trickle or a second wave?

I believe 2nd wave? There were a few dates to select

I guess it doesn't really matter in the end

this late?

around 11 AM EST was in interview all day no chance to post

< ok here's an example. in ADDITION to being a rockstar applicant, connections are what get you to the top programs. example: one of the people who matched penn last year? her brother is a resident in the derm program at harvard and presumably knows the harvard and penn PD well. that sort of thing.

fml looks like my parents should have had more kids

LOL same. But I'm just saying this to say that you REALLY shouldn't feel bad / wonder why you're not getting an interview to top programs. There is SO much backdoor dealings etc that go on behind the scene that in reality almost none of the slots are open to just a good applicant without any STRONG connections of some sort. <- another example: one of the UCSF residents has an uncle who is a dermatologist at UCSF

LMAOOOO this is too good

But I thikn the IN ADDITION point is important, having a connection but being mediocre doesnt work as far as I can tell.

<so if we got an interview to a top program without being internal or rotator, do we assume someone had a connection or said something on your behalf?

no, assume you just got an invite, but know chances are low you won't match :)

That's not nice >:(. OP, you've earned that interview, especially without obvious connections. You should go rock it and show everyone what you're made of.

sometimes the truth isn't nice :/

Or maybe you shouldn't take out your frustriations on random people online.<<with that mindset, people wouldnt match from external schools then

not true, the girl who matched penn whose brother is a derm resident at harvard went to northwestern. and to the other person, that's pretty presumptous of you - I'm just being honest. How you decide to take that honesty is on you, not me.<<well thats exactly what im saying, barring no other "real connections" how do people match at a program they are not from.

to be clear, outside of the top 10 programs it's a whole different world. This level of neoptism is almost unique to these programs. <- equivalent of legacy status for undergrad

I knew an applicant who's father-in-law was the chair of a derm department....so needless to say they got an interview at that institution. Other "ties" are research. Some programs really favor their research fellows....who can spend one year or MORE doing research for the department. Often unpaid or super low pay. There's a lot of politics. I'm sure other fields are similar but because derm is small, the effects feel (and probably are amplified).

to add another great story, my friend told me that one of the people who matched to cornell last year? her mom is derm at cornell. connections are everything!

Top tier: UPenn Harvard UCSF NYU Mayo Michigan, Emory, Henry Ford?) and Michigan and Mayo are not top tier. Would add Stanford, Hopkins, and UCLA instead)

would also add UTSW https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/article/157864/practice-management/us-dermatology-residency-program-rankings-based/page/0/1 <<what is the difference between this article and the doximity rankings? Is there more validity to one vs the other? << lol, someone put UCLA in top tier (UCLA isn't even a Department, it's a Division) >> lol UCLA low tier for sure << realistically, probably middle to low, great overall health system but will always have hands tied and no real ability to grow

UCLA is a solid program, strong surgical training, lacks the super complex patients of some more intense programs but it depends on what you are looking for in your training << I don't think anyone's saying it's a bad program, just not a top tier, that's kind of silly

UCLA is the perfect example of a low-to-mid tier program that is nonetheless quite competitive given it's in California. Again, there's often a disconnect between prestige/quality of training and competitiveness. Location, location, location.

No way that Hopkins and UCLA would be top tier over Michigan and Mayo

Mid-tier: OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota, UPMC >> Would probably put MN as low tier? >> Thoughts? Why? >> Minnesota would probably be in same tier as OHSU, Iowa, UPMC. Iowa has great faculty, but I think it does suffer from being in a relatively non-diverse, predominately white, smallish-city in Iowa. Minnesota, OHSU, and UPMC are in more urban environments with at least UPMC and Minnesota having more ethnic / racial diversity, (Portland is super white as well). Also, no one should trust that MDedge nonsense x5

To be fair they tried to make an objective measure. Many of the opinions here leave out some good programs and add in top medical schools that are not top derm programs

MN, Iowa as med-high tier? Would drop UPMC to low tier (just feel like no residents really enjoy it there but maybe that's just me lol)? And Iowa usually as a top 20 program on almost all ranking systems (though you cant always trust these things so who knows). I think its one of those places that suffers in many peoples minds because they have a not-so great med school and its in the mid west, but the derm program is actually extremely well-respected independednt of those facts

1. Penn 2. UCSF 3. NYU 4. Harvard 5. Stanford 6. Northwestern 7. Emory 8. UTSW 9. Hopkins 10. Wash U 11. Mayo 12. Michigan 13. Iowa 14. HF 15. OHSU 16. Colorado 17. Minnesota 18. Utah 19. Cornell 20. Vanderbilt

<-What is this list based on? Its totally inaccurate. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are mid tier programs at best. No Yale? No UW? No Wisconsin? No Miami? No Sinai? Cornell over Columbia? UPMC is definitely mid to top tier. Also, tiers maybe, but I dont understand how you can possibly rank 1 vs. 3 vs. 8 off the cuff << yeah, 1-3 is pretty standard, gets messy with next 5 I was about to post how accurate this list is. Some of the programs listed above are no way in the conversation. You can maybe disagree with Wash U/Cornell to the left tho. I'd agree Vanderbilt too high too

<Yale for sure. x4 . Think that list is pretty accurate for top 20 minus Wash U, Cornell, and Vanderbilt. Would replace with Yale and Columbia. And Cleveland Clinic maybe. <<I question the order of some of these too. Hopkins is not a top 10 (but it is a top 20 probably). I agree that Sinai, miami, Columbia would also be top 20. Vandy should not be on that list and neither should a few others.

<How good are the following programs: UPMC, Hopkins, UCSD, Miami.

I think those are all decent programs (mid-top tier?). I would say that I typically view Hopkins as a mid-tier program (they don't have a lot of diversity in terms of training sites, though Hopkins itself is a great hospital). Miami is typically considered a Top 10 program - but they also are quite disorganized, old facilities, longer hours (Saturday clinics). UPMC takes a lot of MD/PhDs and has great Mohs training, though I never found their program actually attracts people who want to be there. UCSD is solid, somewhat basic-science focused. It's outshined by other programs in California (e.g. Stanford, UCSF, USC) and San Diego has great weather / beaches, though admittedly isn't the most exciting place to live / lacks a lot of arts / culture compared to most bigger cities in the United States.

name me a state with better Mexican food tho

Northwestern is the best in Chicago x2

what about the others?

iono, the only other program I've heard of is UChicago, and that's because of its college, not the derm program << I think UChicago is only held up by its undergrad name, the derm program is not that great, no where near NW. Loyola is actually pretty good just location isn't amazing. IDK too much about rush, uic, and cook though

there is a giant gap between NW and UChicago in terms of department strength, reputation, and most of all, research x 2

anyone know which airport is best to fly in for U Chicago? It appears the main campus is further south closer to midway but there's apparently a downtown campus too maybe closer to O'Hare, not sure where the interviews are held. Forgive my ignorance of Chicago geography.

<Would recommend flying into Midway x1

Thanks!

< It's totally separate (don't get to rank both unless you get both interviews)<ok thanks too bad

Yes!! UCSD, UCSF, UT Austin at Dell x 2, MCW, etc. <Northwestern, UMn

Make sure you ask specifically if there are peds derms at your programs. Many very good programs don't have a fellowship trained pediatric dermatologist, especially if located in a "less desirable" geographic location.

normal derm applicant here, <2 interviews and only 1 prelim - my heart goes out to you dude or dudette. F x2

< thanks friend <3 here's hoping the both of us get some love soon.

yes. They seem like they are of comparable rank. NW is in the top 10. Definitely can't compare NW with Rochester or UTSW. < You can't go wrong with any of these. I feel like you're splitting hairs with regard to quality of training and should be basing your decision off of location. x2

UTSW is known to be INTENSE you will be HIGHLY trained. Northwestern AMAZING Pediatric dermatology exposure & Mohs. Mayo = Great COMPLEX med derm and research support (you get dedicated research assistants etc.) Depends on your career goals. ALL will prepare you for Academic Medicine. If you want to do Mohs I would say UTSW>NW>Mayo If you want PEDS NW>Mayo>UTSW

Go to Northwestern. You'll be glad you did.

False completely. If mohs, go to Mayo, they have 3 internal spots, and in recent recent years, they have matched 5-6 residents yearly to mohs. However, they are not well known to churning out academic derm (last 3 years, no one is going to academic). They really care about fits more than score, medical school reputation and research

<even with name, they have TREMENDOUS difficulty attracting actual top tier applicants, Rochester is just... you know

Obviously northwestern is an objectively much better proram. The only way I could see picking Davis is if youre almost certain you want to stay in CA long term or if you have zero interest in academics and dont want to deal with all the extra pressure to publish youd probably experience at NW

Could I ask a similar question about USC vs Northwestern?

Northwestern. It is a fantastic program. USC is fantastic too, but Northwestern has way better opporunities in almost anything you can think of. Only thing USC has over Northwestern is weather. << well, that and nicer faculty

Northwestern is a top 15 program. Davis and USC are both not top 30

what about people interested in Mohs? Per comments in the older spreadsheet, even the PD admitted that NW is not the best training site for people interested in going into Mohs

USC's big-name Mohs surgeon left recently to be Chair elsewhere

Derm programs are ranked into the 30s?

if you ended up picking northwestern, i will start praying to the trickle gods

what about the others?

iono, the only other program I've heard of is UChicago, and that's because of its college, not the derm program << I think UChicago is only held up by its undergrad name, the derm program is not that great, no where near NW. Loyola is actually pretty good just location isn't amazing. IDK too much about rush, uic, and cook though

there is a giant gap between NW and UChicago in terms of department strength, reputation, and most of all, research x 2

anyone know which airport is best to fly in for U Chicago? It appears the main campus is further south closer to midway but there's apparently a downtown campus too maybe closer to O'Hare, not sure where the interviews are held. Forgive my ignorance of Chicago geography.

<Would recommend flying into Midway x1

Thanks!

Make sure you ask specifically if there are peds derms at your programs. Many very good programs don't have a fellowship trained pediatric dermatologist, especially if located in a "less desirable" geographic location.

would also add UTSW https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/article/157864/practice-management/us-dermatology-residency-program-rankings-based/page/0/1 <<what is the difference between this article and the doximity rankings? Is there more validity to one vs the other? << lol, someone put UCLA in top tier (UCLA isn't even a Department, it's a Division) >> lol UCLA low tier for sure << realistically, probably middle to low, great overall health system but will always have hands tied and no real ability to grow

UCLA is a solid program, strong surgical training, lacks the super complex patients of some more intense programs but it depends on what you are looking for in your training << I don't think anyone's saying it's a bad program, just not a top tier, that's kind of silly

UCLA is the perfect example of a low-to-mid tier program that is nonetheless quite competitive given it's in California. Again, there's often a disconnect between prestige/quality of training and competitiveness. Location, location, location.

No way that Hopkins and UCLA would be top tier over Michigan and Mayo

Mid-tier: OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota, UPMC >> Would probably put MN as low tier? >> Thoughts? Why? >> Minnesota would probably be in same tier as OHSU, Iowa, UPMC. Iowa has great faculty, but I think it does suffer from being in a relatively non-diverse, predominately white, smallish-city in Iowa. Minnesota, OHSU, and UPMC are in more urban environments with at least UPMC and Minnesota having more ethnic / racial diversity, (Portland is super white as well). Also, no one should trust that MDedge nonsense x5

To be fair they tried to make an objective measure. Many of the opinions here leave out some good programs and add in top medical schools that are not top derm programs

MN, Iowa as med-high tier? Would drop UPMC to low tier (just feel like no residents really enjoy it there but maybe that's just me lol)? And Iowa usually as a top 20 program on almost all ranking systems (though you cant always trust these things so who knows). I think its one of those places that suffers in many peoples minds because they have a not-so great med school and its in the mid west, but the derm program is actually extremely well-respected independednt of those facts

1. Penn 2. UCSF 3. NYU 4. Harvard 5. Stanford 6. Northwestern 7. Emory 8. UTSW 9. Hopkins 10. Wash U 11. Mayo 12. Michigan 13. Iowa 14. HF 15. OHSU 16. Colorado 17. Minnesota 18. Utah 19. Cornell 20. Vanderbilt

<-What is this list based on? Its totally inaccurate. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are mid tier programs at best. No Yale? No UW? No Wisconsin? No Miami? No Sinai? Cornell over Columbia? UPMC is definitely mid to top tier. Also, tiers maybe, but I dont understand how you can possibly rank 1 vs. 3 vs. 8 off the cuff << yeah, 1-3 is pretty standard, gets messy with next 5 I was about to post how accurate this list is. Some of the programs listed above are no way in the conversation. You can maybe disagree with Wash U/Cornell to the left tho. I'd agree Vanderbilt too high too

<Yale for sure. x4 . Think that list is pretty accurate for top 20 minus Wash U, Cornell, and Vanderbilt. Would replace with Yale and Columbia. And Cleveland Clinic maybe. <<I question the order of some of these too. Hopkins is not a top 10 (but it is a top 20 probably). I agree that Sinai, miami, Columbia would also be top 20. Vandy should not be on that list and neither should a few others.

<How good are the following programs: UPMC, Hopkins, UCSD, Miami.

I think those are all decent programs (mid-top tier?). I would say that I typically view Hopkins as a mid-tier program (they don't have a lot of diversity in terms of training sites, though Hopkins itself is a great hospital). Miami is typically considered a Top 10 program - but they also are quite disorganized, old facilities, longer hours (Saturday clinics). UPMC takes a lot of MD/PhDs and has great Mohs training, though I never found their program actually attracts people who want to be there. UCSD is solid, somewhat basic-science focused. It's outshined by other programs in California (e.g. Stanford, UCSF, USC) and San Diego has great weather / beaches, though admittedly isn't the most exciting place to live / lacks a lot of arts / culture compared to most bigger cities in the United States.

name me a state with better Mexican food tho

< unless you're northwestern and you interview 70+ people for 4 spots

i was told northwestern is interviewin 32. <- there were 24ish at internal day so no way they only interview 32 total unless you're saying 32 externals

They said 32 “interview slots” so yes maybe. I’ll take 56 VS 70+

According to the self-reported data on Freida, it's 70+, and that's from the program itself.