NYP Hosp-Columbia Univ Med Ctr-NY

additional edits: loyola has 3 spots, U of C has 4, SIU has 2, MCW has 5

SIU has 3 as of last year

PD at Loyola said there's 4 spots this year

Absolutely. While reviewing applications, the residents and faculty note applicants they WANT to interview and then there are the so so applicants they still give the interview just in case/ curtosey/ etc. During the interview, I find it obvious the way the residents and such interact with the stellars that looked great on paper during the interview. As long as they aren't straight weirddo, I assume they will be ranking them highly. There is always that rare case of someone that is a weirdo and will drop down that list if that are just plain weird or doesnt seem like a fit

<Like the way residents interact with them during the downtime? That seems unlikely.

Very unlikely. Most residents don't know your application. If they are an interviewing resident, they probably have a limited application and don't know your scores.< It variues by program (some were blinded, others had scores/stats in front of them). However, at most programs there is no official rank list pre-interview that interviewers know about since they don't all meet together to make this list. They may each have their individual rank list generally based on their own interests and how it overlaps with the applicants they read about to prepare for the interviews but honestly there were plenty of interviewers who knew very little about me at both top and mid tier programs. Also, a lot of programs use a scoring system during interviews which is what makes their initial rank list which serves as a starting point during the rank meetings

< thought columbia was 5? <yes my mistake it's 5!

I can confirm a few residents and faculty that interviewed me were aware of my scores

<< thanks, will update

Program Michigan - Location Columbia <anyone else?

best program in the country, hands down. Should replace NYU in the top 5 tbh

Good joke! Columbia is the worst program in Manhattan. They have a lot of work to do. Medicare/Medicaid patient population exclusively. <NYMC is worse

I agree that they are top notch, probably not replacing NYU, but absolutely on par with

absolutely NOT on par with

NYU>>>>>>>Columbia.. some people just can't get over the "ivy league" attached to columbia, but NYU is a far more prestigious program

What makes columbia lower in quality of a program? Is the malignancy thing true (q for internals/rotators)

No, NYU >>> Columbia. would not come to NYU again if I had the option

good, why do u ask?

LOL< OMG im so jelly of you, you actually interviewed at the most sought after program in the universe

[cries in neither interview] but idk, everyone seems to like NYU more.

NYU > Columbia

No, NYU >>> Columbia

NYU is a top 5 program

<Seriously. Just based off program its NYU all the way, not even really a question. But, if you personally felt you fit better at Columbia then great, thats what the interview process is all about, pick Columbia!

They say those programs are malignant so you rank them lower, and then they can match at them, lol

I think there's a lot of people who state something with authority when either they don't really know themselves or when they're just being malicious and stating false stuff, but from my own limited personal understanding, these programs are the ones that repeatedly -- year after year -- are cited as "malignant." But I think people are using a broad definition of malignant and the reasons for being listed as "malignant" are different for each program -- NYU has been stated to have unhappy residents who do a lot of scut (as can be said about Columbia) with not the nicest attendings; Pitt has been stated to have somewhat uncaring attendings; USC is broadly a scandal-ridden school so not particularly dermatology department-related; Michigan has supposedly improved; UMiami they just work you hard eg, 7:00 am daily lectures (as can be said about UCSF). So I think malignant in derm programs is not like general surgery malignant, I think just one or more of hard working/unhappy residents/not very nice or caring attendings.

<<well said. I a lot of the "malignant" rep just means your are working a little harder in some way relative to some other programs. However, some of these top programs are top programs because they work you a little harder...forcing you to learn a little more. -- Agreed --> I would disagree slightly. Sometimes "working harder" doesn't mean learning more. It just means working harder. x3

<lol someone said lower that malignant means having morning lectures. Very broad range of definitions here

I think people have the expectation that derm residency should be a 9-5 cush job...? << I don't think that person was conflating 7 AM lectures with malignancy, I think it was a separate question

7 am lecture is a special type of torture but not malignant, agree.

idk I equate malignant with people (attendings, coresidents, PD, chair, etc) being actively mean and malicious. Like not caring about the residents or caring that they are unhappy. Long hours, early lecture = sucks but not necessarily malignant if people know about it in advance and sign up for it.

Top tier: UPenn Harvard UCSF NYU Mayo Michigan, Emory, Henry Ford?) and Michigan and Mayo are not top tier. Would add Stanford, Hopkins, and UCLA instead)

would also add UTSW https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/article/157864/practice-management/us-dermatology-residency-program-rankings-based/page/0/1 <<what is the difference between this article and the doximity rankings? Is there more validity to one vs the other? << lol, someone put UCLA in top tier (UCLA isn't even a Department, it's a Division) >> lol UCLA low tier for sure << realistically, probably middle to low, great overall health system but will always have hands tied and no real ability to grow

UCLA is a solid program, strong surgical training, lacks the super complex patients of some more intense programs but it depends on what you are looking for in your training << I don't think anyone's saying it's a bad program, just not a top tier, that's kind of silly

UCLA is the perfect example of a low-to-mid tier program that is nonetheless quite competitive given it's in California. Again, there's often a disconnect between prestige/quality of training and competitiveness. Location, location, location.

No way that Hopkins and UCLA would be top tier over Michigan and Mayo

Mid-tier: OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota, UPMC >> Would probably put MN as low tier? >> Thoughts? Why? >> Minnesota would probably be in same tier as OHSU, Iowa, UPMC. Iowa has great faculty, but I think it does suffer from being in a relatively non-diverse, predominately white, smallish-city in Iowa. Minnesota, OHSU, and UPMC are in more urban environments with at least UPMC and Minnesota having more ethnic / racial diversity, (Portland is super white as well). Also, no one should trust that MDedge nonsense x5

To be fair they tried to make an objective measure. Many of the opinions here leave out some good programs and add in top medical schools that are not top derm programs

MN, Iowa as med-high tier? Would drop UPMC to low tier (just feel like no residents really enjoy it there but maybe that's just me lol)? And Iowa usually as a top 20 program on almost all ranking systems (though you cant always trust these things so who knows). I think its one of those places that suffers in many peoples minds because they have a not-so great med school and its in the mid west, but the derm program is actually extremely well-respected independednt of those facts

1. Penn 2. UCSF 3. NYU 4. Harvard 5. Stanford 6. Northwestern 7. Emory 8. UTSW 9. Hopkins 10. Wash U 11. Mayo 12. Michigan 13. Iowa 14. HF 15. OHSU 16. Colorado 17. Minnesota 18. Utah 19. Cornell 20. Vanderbilt

<-What is this list based on? Its totally inaccurate. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are mid tier programs at best. No Yale? No UW? No Wisconsin? No Miami? No Sinai? Cornell over Columbia? UPMC is definitely mid to top tier. Also, tiers maybe, but I dont understand how you can possibly rank 1 vs. 3 vs. 8 off the cuff << yeah, 1-3 is pretty standard, gets messy with next 5 I was about to post how accurate this list is. Some of the programs listed above are no way in the conversation. You can maybe disagree with Wash U/Cornell to the left tho. I'd agree Vanderbilt too high too

<Yale for sure. x4 . Think that list is pretty accurate for top 20 minus Wash U, Cornell, and Vanderbilt. Would replace with Yale and Columbia. And Cleveland Clinic maybe. <<I question the order of some of these too. Hopkins is not a top 10 (but it is a top 20 probably). I agree that Sinai, miami, Columbia would also be top 20. Vandy should not be on that list and neither should a few others.

<How good are the following programs: UPMC, Hopkins, UCSD, Miami.

I think those are all decent programs (mid-top tier?). I would say that I typically view Hopkins as a mid-tier program (they don't have a lot of diversity in terms of training sites, though Hopkins itself is a great hospital). Miami is typically considered a Top 10 program - but they also are quite disorganized, old facilities, longer hours (Saturday clinics). UPMC takes a lot of MD/PhDs and has great Mohs training, though I never found their program actually attracts people who want to be there. UCSD is solid, somewhat basic-science focused. It's outshined by other programs in California (e.g. Stanford, UCSF, USC) and San Diego has great weather / beaches, though admittedly isn't the most exciting place to live / lacks a lot of arts / culture compared to most bigger cities in the United States.

name me a state with better Mexican food tho

Hopkins< this hasnt come out yet right??...< I hope not

only internal

when did that happen? x1 any confirmation internals went out?<internals did not go out. < Where is my man sheet daddy at?

Columbia

<I know at my program they rate if they think applicants will rank the program highly and a lot of thatt is based on geography. This counts just as much as other big categories like "research" or "scores" << what if we're an East coast and did an away at a West coast? and also have a LOR from that west coast school? >>Midwest and did one east/one west and it ain't doing much for me << okay so it's not just me. this is really interesting+frustrating.> not sure how much more fucking obviously willing to go wherever we can be .

there is no logic...we are some of the best medical student and I'm sure most of us are extremely hard working, but we are now in a position of weakness with no power at all #jaded

medical school applications all over again haha <tbh I never felt like that then. I felt I would get in somewhere versus now I truly am worried about not matching << you better than me, i was kinda scared i wouldn't get into a med school. but yes, i am even more scared about match, because it's one and done.

<no midwest love and im from NE >> Barely any Midwest love from the Midwest lolol

east coast, away rotation in nyc. ignored at NYU, columbia. <same. and downstate potentially lol

yea east coast ignored by east coast here << cell OP here, also forgot to mention, rejected at SIU and all midwest programs basically so far. geography is not a factor for me at all because im getting nothing

did you get a letter from your NYC away rotation? << yes, got a LOR from faculty member, not sure of quality but i had to use it. and one of the residents said he really hopes to see me back for an interview (means nothing but it was nice to hear)

yeah it's frustating.

what are these programs even looking for at this point? i check all the boxes and yet still no love. sigh. << honestly, it's a great question. i dont think anyone knows and the people with double digit interviews have a legitimate reason to not care haha, they deserve it. but yeah i think it's just brutal out there because we're all just that good.

i have double digit interviews and can 100% say that there are so many people on here who are equally/if not more deserving and it's not far. I know people identical to me on paper with 1 or 2 and the whole system is entirely fucked. That being said, still hate this waiting game and feel for everyone on here. << this is the way to properly say that you have a lot of interviews. people with no tact, please take note! :)

not just tactful but also true. I also have double digits and think the system is truly just randomness and maybe only peripherally based on merit

< Me to an audience of PDs: https://youtu.be/4Irs_jeRInU?t=99 << lmao i had no idea this existed x2