UC San Francisco-CA

i heard shit things about northwestern so maybe not there << What is the problem? << Overpromise and underdeliver. They talk up their projects, tell you you'll get x number of publications by whatever time, tell you they'll mentor you through the application process - and at the end of the day you'll maybe see your PI once a month << and then they don't interview all their research year people lmao << ya fml << Def heard avoid northwestern for research fellowship. They use you for free labor.

<< That sounds terrible. Anybody with experience at Harvard or UCSF? Even Upenn but that would hard for my SO << I have had several friends at Harvard who swear by their expeirences there << wherever you go, def pick clinical research over basic science research (more pubs). also don't just go for the fancy names, look into places that would actually match you after spending a research year there (not to say that you're not good enough for harvard/ucsf/penn, but also top programs historically don't give a crap if you spent time with them)

I don't know if I agree about a place that takes their fellows. It's not a bad strategy but also a mentor who fights for you can go really far!

Are there any specific people or groups that are worth reaching out to? How did you guys find where to go? << I have heard of people having success with Kroshinsky at Harvard, Koo at UCSF, Rosenbach at Penn, and Mostaghimi at Brigham

I did research with Mostaghimi. He wasn't around most of the time and I didn't find the experience that fulfilling tbh << Not sure why comment was deleted. Seems like someone has an agenda. I worked with Mostaghimi and thought he was really dedicated to me and his other students. If you are thinking about working with him he will put you in touch with people who have actually worked with him and you can get a sense of what their experience was like. Don't believe everything you read on these boards.

I found my research year by talking to just about every upperclassman who had done one in the 1-3 years before me. Really variable year to year and I agree that big name places can be a let down. There's just no way Harvard cares when they have so many research fellows. heck, they a least a few of their own med students didn't match last year so don't expect an interview.

<< Can't speak for insitution at large but both at Harvard and other institutions the specific individual that you work with is the most important part. Look at the people who have worked with these attendings in the past, they've genreally done well. Do your homework, find a person and talk to peple who have worked with them before

i think it went out on monday? << for everyone or internals?

seemed like there were externals too Also, it seems Kansas went out? Is 1/16 interview date confirmed?

What are the odds of a Miami trickle?

Not horrible odds since many places like Northwestern, UCSF, Hopkins, and others overlpa with their dates

< I tried to creep and I think last year they had 2 invite dates in december, I'm wondering if that might mean they had those 2 in addition to the internal date in late october, so maybe they would have another date to release invites!!!

They say those programs are malignant so you rank them lower, and then they can match at them, lol

I think there's a lot of people who state something with authority when either they don't really know themselves or when they're just being malicious and stating false stuff, but from my own limited personal understanding, these programs are the ones that repeatedly -- year after year -- are cited as "malignant." But I think people are using a broad definition of malignant and the reasons for being listed as "malignant" are different for each program -- NYU has been stated to have unhappy residents who do a lot of scut (as can be said about Columbia) with not the nicest attendings; Pitt has been stated to have somewhat uncaring attendings; USC is broadly a scandal-ridden school so not particularly dermatology department-related; Michigan has supposedly improved; UMiami they just work you hard eg, 7:00 am daily lectures (as can be said about UCSF). So I think malignant in derm programs is not like general surgery malignant, I think just one or more of hard working/unhappy residents/not very nice or caring attendings.

<<well said. I a lot of the "malignant" rep just means your are working a little harder in some way relative to some other programs. However, some of these top programs are top programs because they work you a little harder...forcing you to learn a little more. -- Agreed --> I would disagree slightly. Sometimes "working harder" doesn't mean learning more. It just means working harder. x3

<lol someone said lower that malignant means having morning lectures. Very broad range of definitions here

I think people have the expectation that derm residency should be a 9-5 cush job...? << I don't think that person was conflating 7 AM lectures with malignancy, I think it was a separate question

7 am lecture is a special type of torture but not malignant, agree.

idk I equate malignant with people (attendings, coresidents, PD, chair, etc) being actively mean and malicious. Like not caring about the residents or caring that they are unhappy. Long hours, early lecture = sucks but not necessarily malignant if people know about it in advance and sign up for it.

Any program with daily didatics before 8am. <name names x2

UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI HAS DIDACTICS AT 7AM EVERY DAY << HF has morning lectures <<LOL someone deleted UCSF being malignant

UCSF is malignant

how are 7am lectures = MALIGNANT? I think people are confusing working hard and dedicated learning with malignant LOL << I don't think anyone is conflating 7AM with malignant. It was a seperate question.

the initial response though spoke of lectures before 8am = malignant, so it can be inferrered the subsequent responses were in the same vein

I've heard that Stanford is very very....NON malignant <uhhhhm i've never heard that before

originally it said not malignant, some foo edited it

resident lurker here FYI UCSF's lectures start at 8 am everyday not 7 am. There is a 7:30 am dermpath session before lecture on Tuesdays.

It goes fully from 8 am-4pm (resident who interviewed there)<thank you!

the system is trickle, gimme dem invites! but seriously i dont know why schools do this, i guess its their way of filtering out even more candidates...<<i guess but then they miss out on some really great applicants that might have gone there. for example, i literally couldnt choose between two schools on those dates, so i just went with the more convenient flight option. Not because i liked one school more than the other....who knows if i would have been a better fit for the other school

man i feel for you, im not saying its right or anything.

I feel for UConn and Maryland internals/rotators. Only given 1 date << can you imagine if you rotated at both, and then had to pick between invites at JHU, UCSF, Northwestern, UC-Davis, UMiami, Mayo-AZ?<<that was me, i had to pick between ucsf, northwestern, mayo AZ, Davis, and hopkins <goals x3

i would love to have those problems

I hate the overlap especially since I have had to pick even though I only have 5 invites. However, with people going to 15+ or 20+ interviews, I'm glad they do this to force a little trickle. << problem is for some of us we already got rejected from these programs, so even if the spots are now open...it won't be to us :(

As someone with far more rejections than invites, we have to accept that those were not for us.

Did Stanford go out already?

no, but maybe for internals?<is Stanford coming out today?

yeah seems pretty impossible to make but thankfully theirs did not seem mandatory (Harvard's was more strongly worded to attend)

< yeah I am driving though. wanna hitch a ride?

LOL <if some folks are leaving right after or together I would be down to share the Uber to the airport

I just emailed the coordinator to see whether she thinks it's possible to make the 6:40pm JetBlue flight

if you're talking about the Harvard interview, the coordinator confirmed that the AM session (starting at 7:30am) is scheduled to end at 1:30pm.

is there an AM and PM session? I thought the email said the interview day goes from 7a-5pm? Although my email said to arrive at 9:15am...?

I think there are 7:30, 9:30, and 12:30 sessions. I was told to arrive at 7:20.

So I should ask when the 9:30 session ends but presumably 3:30?

probably<<confirmed with coordinator that 9:30 session will end at 3:30, not sure about the other ones but i think we can assume they will last around the same length.

<similar struggle for me, ended up booking two flights in event I can't get out early enough.

which two flights?

booked the 6:40p jetblue

The UCSF pre-interview dinner was amazing. I would try to attend it. I thought it was 10/10 better than Harvard's. Just sayin.

First world problems. same.

c'mon it's still a problem for this person << yea dude dont be a dick

literally no one's gonna want the 1/16 date since UCSF is 1/15, Penn is 1/16 and Stanford is 1/17 bro...and I'm assuming people getting these programs get the lot of the others...good luck x2 << Yeah if you look at the interview swap page a small group of elite are all having conflicts at the same dates and the same places. Nobody is going to "swap" a non-conflict for a potential conflict.

lolololololololololololol... sorry not actually taking joy from the conflicts, just laughing at the fact that the top programs are all interviewing the same people.

anyone not get a rejection or a call? Ie limbo? x1

Geh, double heartbreak today with Penn and UCSF << Not sure what I was expecting, but somehow it still sucks.

I actually thought that I had a good shot for both... here's what I get for getting my hopes up

sadness, sadness all around today x2 <-- could be worse

Im realy sad about this one =[<same, Ive been lucky to have had interviews at most of the top programs so far, but penn was really my absolute dream. Idk what was wrong in my app, Im crushed.

Yeah I feel like we would see the same people at a lot of the top programs. It feels so strange to be invited to Harvard but not Penn - does anyone else feel the same?<invites from Harvard, UCSF, NYU...but not penn. I do not understand

Minus UCSF, same. So weird! I wonder why, especially in your case with 3 of the other top 5!<<im not sure tbh. I expected Penn more than UCSF considering i have no ties to the west coast. My only rationale is that my step isnt the absolute highest for these top places, and idk if penn considers step score more than some of the other top programs.

You know what, I too have a sneaking suspiscion Penn values high step scores more than any of the other top 5. I'm around a 255 so maybe they really want that 260+? I really wanted this one :(<<yea im in the low 250 range as well. oh well cant win em all.

True. And sounds like it's Penn's loss in your case :)<<best of luck to you in your interviews kind stranger, and congrats on your well deserved merits!

haha thank you!! :') you too!!

I was fortuante to top 5 IVs with step >260 soI think they just have a really good applicant pool and we missed out because they look for different things?

Congrats on the impressive score and interviews!! Yeah, could be! I think the person who commented in 14D explains well some one the inherent and unavoidable randomness in the process. <- do you guys remember what your responses to the penn supplmemt was at the beginning of the cycle? my step scores weren't as high as yours and i got penn but my response was interest in epidemiology

Congrats!! And that's strange about the tracks, do you think that mattered? And I just selected the 3 year track and combined clinical and research training. Maybe Dr. Gefland was the person who reviewed your app lol <- step 1 was mid 240s

i doubt a 250ish step 1 score would be the disqualifying factor in an otherwise outstanding candidate?

No it's not that it's disqualifying, it's that there's SO MANY qualified applicants with a 250ish step score, you just can't interview them all. <i guess my point is i feel like they would look at some other aspect to try to differentiate applicants rather than just a few points on a standardized test (at least that's the hope lol)

Yes one'd hope lol

On the bright side, I appreciated that the subject started with, “unable to offer interview” x6

There is no bright side. Nothing is bright anymore.

lol, I didn't get an invitation or a rejection so i don't know if I have sheer joy or more disappointment headed my way. ::shrug::

Congrats! Method of contact (Eras, email)?

Email< did regular Miami come out?

Also trickle

< This is frustrating because same day as UCSF, we basically have to choose now

^ what are good scores and good amount of research? I thought I did too but I guess not :( congrats on the interview to the both of you!

< ok here's an example. in ADDITION to being a rockstar applicant, connections are what get you to the top programs. example: one of the people who matched penn last year? her brother is a resident in the derm program at harvard and presumably knows the harvard and penn PD well. that sort of thing.

fml looks like my parents should have had more kids

LOL same. But I'm just saying this to say that you REALLY shouldn't feel bad / wonder why you're not getting an interview to top programs. There is SO much backdoor dealings etc that go on behind the scene that in reality almost none of the slots are open to just a good applicant without any STRONG connections of some sort. <- another example: one of the UCSF residents has an uncle who is a dermatologist at UCSF

LMAOOOO this is too good

But I thikn the IN ADDITION point is important, having a connection but being mediocre doesnt work as far as I can tell.

<so if we got an interview to a top program without being internal or rotator, do we assume someone had a connection or said something on your behalf?

no, assume you just got an invite, but know chances are low you won't match :)

That's not nice >:(. OP, you've earned that interview, especially without obvious connections. You should go rock it and show everyone what you're made of.

sometimes the truth isn't nice :/

Or maybe you shouldn't take out your frustriations on random people online.<<with that mindset, people wouldnt match from external schools then

not true, the girl who matched penn whose brother is a derm resident at harvard went to northwestern. and to the other person, that's pretty presumptous of you - I'm just being honest. How you decide to take that honesty is on you, not me.<<well thats exactly what im saying, barring no other "real connections" how do people match at a program they are not from.

to be clear, outside of the top 10 programs it's a whole different world. This level of neoptism is almost unique to these programs. <- equivalent of legacy status for undergrad

I knew an applicant who's father-in-law was the chair of a derm department....so needless to say they got an interview at that institution. Other "ties" are research. Some programs really favor their research fellows....who can spend one year or MORE doing research for the department. Often unpaid or super low pay. There's a lot of politics. I'm sure other fields are similar but because derm is small, the effects feel (and probably are amplified).

to add another great story, my friend told me that one of the people who matched to cornell last year? her mom is derm at cornell. connections are everything!

But they must know their dates conflict with other big research centers since they are suggesting we look at the calendar...<mayo arizona, UCSF, and hopkins all have same dates :'[[[[

but it sounds like they're willing to work around it?<thats what i was trying to gather...are they though?

they are not....they won't allow us to interview on another day :(

< AH!!! Congrats!! Are you an internal or rotator by chance?? Holding onto hope over here!!!<<yes, internal/rotator

AYYY congrats friend!! <external, no connection here<also internal/rotator here with invite : )

I think first batch was external and second batch was internal/rotators!?!

Congrats!!!!!! (as I refresh my email nonstop) x3

fml

is it over now..?

I'd love to go pretty much anywhere x7

<< first get the interview invites, then worry about ranking. << I think its reasonable to think about now, especially considering the possibility of having IV overlaps and having to drop a program

After talking with the lay public (my parents), going to a program with brand name recognition helps even if you're in private practice, since that's one the things people consider when choosing their doctor. But I have also been told med school prestige matters more.

Brand recognition and tier don't always match up. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are probably better known as names to average americans compared to UCSF. << probably matters more to people more familiar with medicine. Most don’t care about where a private practice doc trained. And echo that lay people don’t know strong training

The public knows about 10 big names. They care how nice their doc treats them.

Yea i would argue most patients do not know where their doctor went to med school or residency (or what residency is). I know many IMG docs who have busier practices and higher patient ratings because they have put more time in to hustle for their practice than their ivy league collegues.

<Another consideration is the type of training. You get exposed to cool rare things in top places, but their programs may advertise that majority go into academics and that is where their connections are. Lower tier places advertise the opposite since their connections are in other practice settings. <-- Yeah, this is not accurate. "Private practice connections" are mostly local (e.g. in the metro area a particular practice is in), regardless if a program is a "top" program or lower ranked. Having a "top" brand name attached to your name would still be valuable in private practice (both locally and outside the metro region of your program) - private practices like advertising "Harvard-trained" doctors, etc. It's silly, but a small consideration. Point being, lesser ranked programs are not going to have any more connections in private practice compared with a highly ranked program.