Mass General Brigham-MA

would definitely recommend the smaller, lower tier school that you're interested in matching at and this is coming from someone who did their RY at a top-tier program with many other research fellows

Anyone have thoughts on Mount Sinai RY (other than the internal bias for their RY candidates, are they decent output, good mentorship?)

imo one of the best RYs you can do. several of their RY students presented at AAD this year. your mentor will be a derm expert and if you work hard and get along with everyone you have a very good chance of matching there

imo one of the best RYs you can do. several of their RY students presented at AAD this year. your mentor will be a derm expert and if you work hard and get along with everyone you have a very good chance of matching there>> Presenting to AAD aint shit lmao the only benefit is that they have strong linkage to match internal.

Thoughts on doing a RY at Harvard?

initially had some regrets about ranking a "low ranked" program bc super chill and good vibes/locaiton. now that reality has sunk in i have 0 regrets, will be much happier for 4 years

had same issue went between T5 and literally a program many dont know about and im so glad im going to the other program because my QOL is going to be so much better

Middle tier programs in top tier cities are the best for derm imo

better a big fish in a small pond than the opposite. At the end of the day you'll be a dermatologist and will be able to get a job basically anywhere. Even if you want to stay in academia, people from "lower ranked" programs end up as attendings at Harvard/Penn/etc...

Middle tier programs in top tier cities are the best for derm imo agree, less pressure at work and lots of time to enjoy a fun city!

if this is about the harvard match, that was from a friend from prior year if it helps, and it's not the norm just a good example of why the match results are not one dimensional

I have a friend who ranked harvard #1 last year and too didnt match, known someone who matched there and didnt even rank them top 3, its kinda messed up ngl

i matched at a t5 that was not my dream program, but probably was someone elses. but that also happened to me, yah know

on a similar note, it stings coming on here and seeing people trash the program i matched at for no clear reason when im really excited to have matched...

who cares what other people think, youll never meet a hater doing better than you

NRMP really should just say that it's program favored and stop getting our hopes up

erm, the anecdotes above clearly show that it is applicant favored

it's people coping with the program they matched in or coping with being unmatched

derm resident here - people are nitpicking derm programs so much on here to an unhealthy level. People trashed my program on here but my experience with my program has been completely the opposite of what people were saying. I wonder if some element of it is either jealousy, or people trying to get others to rank the program lower. Either way, pay it no mind and celebrate that you will become a dermatologist and living the dream

love this, thank you!

also salty away rotators or rejects will have the most negative shit to say. hating from outside the club when they can't even get in

I feel like knowing where to do your audition rotations is so critical to matching but if you're outside of the state, you only know if you have inside information on how the actual residency program runs, which it seems like only home med students know.

I feel like knowing where to do your audition rotations is so critical to matching but if you're outside of the state, you only know if you have inside information on how the actual residency program runs, which it seems like only home med students know. But I feel like only certain types of students can rotate at places like Penn, Harvard, UCSF, etc. and have a reasonable chance of getting an interview. For most of us, it's a waste.

the cliquiness is sooo true. I felt put off at the social event because the residents would specifically interact and be super friendly with all the rotaters/internal students they knew, and no one knew me in the zoom call

yes, stanford in there too. there are really 6 T5 programs.

if you care about prestige... i wish you well

I mean I matched at an away in a top tier city at a place that my program never matched anyone before. Aways can open up doors for you

I'd consider the fact that a LOT of students actually WANT to stay at their home programs. Although this is not true everywhere, it's certainly true at my program. Many Derm applicants were also competitive med school applicants and chose their med school precisely because they like the programs there and/or the city (Chicago, NY, Cali, etc). But you're right, it's hard to 'break into' a program

complete data is probably something like 33%-40% of people match at their home. thats really not that high to where its pointless to network. 60+% match elsewhere.

i appreciated external experiences and thought about it but decided the grass isn't always greener lol

some programs seems to have started not matching their own students as often as they did in the past. Harvard used to match 3 - 5 HMS students every year, the last two years they only matched 2 (this year ~14 applied from Harvard!).

I ranked my home program #1 above more "prestigious" programs where I did aways, but I really like my department and the location

I think doing aways (esp in a different region) can help to communicate a willingness to relocate as well. I matched at a program outside my region without having rotated there and I think the away that I did complete is likely part of the reason they even interviewed me

It's called being exceptional

bc school prestige isnt the only thing that matters when applying to residency?

cause I didn't like the vibe at the "top" programs, including my home program and loved the vibe at the program I ranked #1

LOUDER

i have a hard time believing that the exceptional applicant at a T10 is not as good as an exceptional applicant from a random medical school. process seems arbitrary

better med school does not necessarily mean better student

nah programs look for random attributes, hard to predict. no such thing as the "perfect" candidate anymore >> THIS. The days of going to a top tier med school, stellar board scores, being top of your class (plus or minus AOA), with a few case reports effectively writing your ticket to any Derm program in the country is effectively over.

some of us are just over the rat race tbh

better med school does not necessarily mean better student >> Hubris to think there is something particularly exceptional about you when most of yall are cookie cutter copy pasted

Went to a T5 for medschool, I am done with the academic rat race and prestige boners that everyone has in derm. I ranked higher a "lower" ranked program (where I ultimately matched and I am incredibly happy!) to be close to family and also receive a great clinical training that would not be diluted by unnecesary research requirements or being an attending's note writer. I know for a fact that many T10 programs have a huge focus in research and residents have little agency, and for many that's fine. At the end of the day I became a doctor to see and treat patients, not do research that most of the time helps no one other than myself and other academic megalomaniacs. I know many of my T5 peers felt the same way about their match approach, not only in derm but other competititve specialties.

Just wanted to add to the discourse, I also attend a T5 med school and ranked a "lower" ranked program (still very strong academically) first because I was so tired of the ivory tower rat race. At some point, you have to break the cycle and prioritize happiness

prestige. I didn't want to stress about doing research as a resident and deal with the high egos of those at top research institutions. The beauty of derm is that we can choose to go to a chill, happy residency program and our training and job prospects are not compromised. Hopefully mine and other top medical students' perspectives on this can encourage future applicants to prioritize themselves over status/prestige.

this makes me sad that some ppl might think i was a weak applicant when in reality i did get 6 T10 interviews and 4 T20 interviews and I ended up choosing much lower ranked program in the end (well outside of T50) bc of location

exactly. and why more people are surprised every year even when they're doing every right

i did this too! so good to hear others doing the same !

I love how this conversation turned into t5 med school applicants defending why they matched at lower ranked derm programs. We've completely ignored the entirely problematic question by OP that automatically assumes students from higher tier med schools are entitled to match at top derm programs. Guess what... some students at lower ranked med schools might actually have stronger dermatology applications than some t10 students, and thats why they were able to match at top derm programs! School prestige isn’t everything… and it shouldn’t be.

exactly. and why more people are surprised every year even when they're doing every right << I understand the frustration though because some Student Affairs and even clinical faculty are giving outdated information. It would be helpful to know what programs are REALLY looking for (not just what they say on websites claiming to be looking for.

this makes me sad that some ppl might think i was a weak applicant when in reality i did get 6 T10 interviews and 4 T20 interviews and I ended up choosing much lower ranked program in the end (well outside of T50) bc of location >> I can say from personal experience going to a "top program" is not always a good thing

exactly. and why more people are surprised every year even when they're doing every right << I understand the frustration though because some Student Affairs depts and even Derm clinical faculty are giving outdated information. It would be helpful to know what programs are REALLY looking for (not just what they say on websites claiming to be looking for).

say more pls

love this perspective! it's honestly so true. stop torturing urselves

i went to a T5 med school and had over 20 interviews and elected to rank a community program #1, because of personal values and long term goals. stop judging where people matched when you have no idea what their rank list was. i know someone who matched harvard and had ranked them #6 so the final list is not the full story and success is multidimensional

yah, echoing this, i went to T5 schools for college and med school. I'm tireeeed and don't wanna grind anymore. I just want to have a salary, work with nice people, live close to family, have kids, own a house with a yard.

man, as someone who ranked harvard #1 and didnt match there, it hurts seeing someone who ranked then #6 and did, wtf is this matching process even

Very mature thinking of you, it will serve you well.

people from Vanderbilt might assume they have a better chance bc their school is "better" or "higher in rankings" so may not try as hard on rotations or with creating connections. Personal opinion

Harvard matched 14, Hopkins 10 and Penn 10 -- I'm kinda seeing a pattern there lol

vanderbilt only had 1 person apply derm this year

14 is crazy

last year penn had almost 10 unmatched tho

UIC matched 7 which is impressive for mid tier

Harvard didn't match 14, matched 11.

vanderbilt only had 1 person apply derm this year << I imagine one of the reasons Colorado's med students had an easier time getting into Derm as because of the dermatoepidemiology research of Dr. Dellavalle where he cranks out publications like crazy.

The best schools match the best, maybe its school name maybe its cuz those ppl are cracked. I've heard my PD say that the top programs care more about med school rank

he left CO a few years ago so idk how many current applicants even worked with him

Harvard matched 11, some students went unmatched

vanderbilt only had 1 person apply derm this year << I imagine one of the reasons Colorado's med students had an easier time getting into Derm is because of the dermatoepidemiology research of Dr. Dellavalle since he cranks out publications like crazy.

there was that one Harvard student on here who had 0 interviews because Harvard doesn't even interview all their internal applicants

that student had 0 IIs for a reason though

what was the reason???

I'd say biggest difference is location/city vibes. also harvard covers hospitals in different locations vs some others are a bit more centralized, but boston maybe has better public transport than the others

when its derm, matching is all that matters

this

people talk badly about stanford on here but it's the best resident salary in the country (even accounting for COL) with a more balanced QOL than other T5 programs (Harvard, UCSF) idk

people talk badly about stanford on here but it's the best resident salary in the country (even accounting for COL) with a more balanced QOL than other T5 programs (Harvard, UCSF) idk >compare to penn?

people say the training at penn is better and i can't speak to that (certainly more big names at penn, more research output) but im not saying what program is best just that some great programs get hated on and its not super clear why to me

people say the training at penn is better (certainly more big names at penn, more research output) but even if true idk why people go after stanford

the less call/inpatient time the better

Stanford is trash

case in point :)

might be bc since they only take their own research years its less reciprocal for other schools to take them

they literally matched 1 person to Harvard and 1 person to UCLA outside of the 2 students at Sinai. not sure what this person is talking about

they literally matched 1 person to Harvard and 1 person to UCLA outside of the 2 students at Sinai. not sure what this person is talking about >Harvard Match was Md/Phd and UCLA match did RY with UCLA PD

You're not alone...many people fell outside of their top 5

be grateful to have matched, but totally understandable to feel sad

fell down to my 7th (first 7 were all within T10)

Fell to #5 as well! My top 3 ranks were T5 programs and thought I would match my #4 realistically then didn't, but I believe this is actually the best outcome for me.

this is derm. no one is "too good" for a program. lucky to match anywhere

same

matched at my 7/7 you are not alone

this is derm. no one is "too good" for a program. lucky to match anywhere +!

Fell to #5/21 but overall very happy

matched at my #6 and my top 5 were all T10 except one, really thought i was going to match in a different city than I did. I go through waves of dissapointment but have to keep reminding myself to be grateful. It's a weird feeling

also maybe obvious but depends on how you make your own rank list too. i didn't fall down my list, but i also put t5s like harvard and ucsf closer to the bottom lol (great programs, but not for me)

just curious, why not?

each had several reasons for being lower on my list, ranging from program/educational structure to locations etc, and those factors (when taken collectively) made them feel like less of a good fit for me compared to other programs

I don't think this is true. The PD at Penn is VERY clear they DO NOT do post II communication. he feels very strongly about it

same with UCSF's PD..> the whole thing strikes me as BS especially with the earlier link to an article with a paid mentoring service

I know people who got rtm calls from penn pd

sure buddy

I heard people who got Pen was for tracks and not by PD

100% serious that I know schools that do post-ii communications/rtm calls when they tell everyone that they are hellbent on no post-ii communication. Just beacuse a PD says it does not mean they won't do it experiencing this gave me trust issues tbh lol

PD's will do anything to get the best of the best, RTM calls happen because programs are selfish

well at least i know i'm not the best of the best yeee

I matched at one of the programs listed above, no RTM call. This rtm thing was absolute bs

I did 2/18 phone call from the chiefs

doxxing yourself huh

I am the PD of UCSD and I know who this applicant is. NRMP has been notified of this individual and they have been banned from our program now. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

why would a PD ban someone for saying they got a post-ii communication lol

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER

lmfao

Harvard does not do RTM calls they are very strict about comms with applicants and try to be fair to everyone across the board

good to know we love to see it

historically no

brb crying

well there goes my hopes and dreams

lol get real>does yale do RTM?>fuck

I know for a fact that at least one of the top 5 do not do RTM (current student)

I think Yale does bc i know someone who got one last year

Just out of curiosity were they internal candidates?

no but i think they sent a LOI

harvard does not do rtm calls

u guys all need versed omfg relax

I got 4 RTM calls. One is my top choice so we'll see if they're actually telling the truth. It might be a small group of people receiving the majority of them. I went to a T5 med school and did a RY at a neighboring research power house that was very productive. Most people march without them do don't worry!

ok this is my legit prediction i have no info to back this up. But what if the programs doing the RTM calls are the UPenn, Stanford, UCSF-type programs that don't want to lose out on applicants because they picked HMS. Akin to med school applications where programs knew based on historical data it would be hard to convince applicants to drop an HMS acceptance?

ucsf explicitly said they dont do these calls btw

ucsf student here, they do it undercover several classmates of mine got some

lmfao get real

yeah sure jan..

anyone know if harvard does RTM call

Ik the pd personally, they call 2-3 ppl (source resident)

omg i'm going to jump off of the golden gate bridge

i mean i guess that just means you're at the top of their list? which doesn't mean you won't match there

lol why would a harvard resident be on this gooner sheet

dude its hms, ofc they want you to beg for it with a LOI...

this is bullshit yall are lame

when does harvard usually do the RTM calls?