Boston, MA
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Fill out the rank sheet properly. How can there be an unequal number of #1, #2 and #3? -- Trolls
good point. that was insensitive
rank #3 > rank #2 still doesn't make sense though also lmfao at the predominance of respondents ranked ivies first, so there's obviously a bias here
LOL
unequal number, because people adding to it. Stanford just jumped 4 up in like 15 minutes // ha, Harvard just did it in short period too, smh
does your intern year play any role in competitiveness for fellowship? would it come back to bite you to do that cushy TY instead of top prelim IM?
No way
disagree, i think it can be helpful to network at a top prelim (BI, BWH, etc.) -- Everything matters, but I doubt your fellowship application will be made or broken by your TY or Prelim
<Your prelim year does not matter at all. like at all.
that's what I needed to hear.
if you do something that's not a good fit for you and you burn out, or don't like the people you're with, you won't go into derm refreshed/happy and that can hurt, so basically prelim year matters TO YOU and do what YOU want, but yes to other people externally it doens't matter one bit
If someone is not planning to have a research or academic career, does going to a "top" derm program really matter? E.g. is ranking some mid tier places over a few top 5s crazy? -- Agree top 5 programs suck. I have them as my bottom 5 and my actual top 5 are all ranked 100+ on doximity. Better fit
Nope.
well.. depends. do you want to do Mohs?
Even if you want to do mohs, if you have a regional preference that is swaying you towards the mid tier than I would still go with the mid tier bc Mohs fellowship interviews have regional preferences outside of top tier
Mohs fellowship is all about connections AND there were multiple small programs I interviewed at where the in-house spot goes to their residents if they want it OR they are so well-trained they do mohs occasionally in practice (at an academic center) without fellowship. For bread and butter derm, non-top programs are better in my opinion. Also having a PD/Chair go to bat for you is massive for Mohs.
< I know people who are planning to do academics/research and still are ranking mid tier (top 20?) over some top 5. There is life outside of residency for normal people, so if you have a reason you should do it
If you want a job in a highly desireable city/at a competitive job (not at academic) it does help to go to a "respected" program which could mean top 5. Helps get connections. If you want to do private practice in a smaller city, probably makes no difference.
Meh. What matters is a PD or chair who is going to pick up the phone and call everyone they know in XYZ city to get you that job. AND, importantly, that the PD or chair won't judge you for wanting a private practice job and will still put in as much effort helping you get that job.
Don't be dumb. The "bougie" pp centers love posting about how their doctors are trained at Hopkins or Harvard. Why do you think TV doctors all trained at Harvard? 95% won't care, but the bougie ones with the best payor mixes do.// << This is very sad but true, for the most competitive private practices name matters a ton :( If you want rural or smaller city or less competitive market, it won't matter where you go//...right, but who actually wants to go practice in those places? Most specialties have a "doctor shortage" because no one wants to live in those bad areas. Everyone wants to live in DC, Boston, SF, NYC, etc, so you do yourself a diservice by going to a lower program. Basically HAVE to do a fellowship to work in a competitive city.//
Anyone else having trouble ranking Utah? It's a great program, lots of resources, amazing faculty... but Salt Lake. // Salt Lake City is actually a highly desirable place to live. I know a LOT of people that want to live there, and it's competitive to get jobs out there. // it depends on what you want. The downtown is meh compared to most cities. Also the <1% African American population is not exactly ideal for training / learning SoC // best place in the US for the great outdoors -- You'll be a competent dermatologist anywhere you go regardless of the demographics, people just like to act like unless you see 50% skin of color, you won't be able to treat these patints and that's just not true. Utah graduates do great work including for patients of color and to suggest otherwise is absurd<< I asked the PD about this at my interview and he agreed that it was a weakness. He also said it's ok because they're trying to train dermatologists who practice in the mountain west, and Utah/SLC resembles the region demographically - Also while Utah as a whole is not diverse, Salt Lake City actually is
bruh, SLC is one of the most desirable locations in the US. It's kind of like Austin/Nashville/Denver where it hasn't always been a hot spot like Boston/San Fran/NYC, but young people have been flocking there in recent years. TBH though, SLC is still not a great place to live if you are a minority. And don't be fooled by how "progressive" it is. It's smack in the middle of mormon country. Great skiing though. anyone know how progressive SLC is? what is a desirable city for certain demographics may not be as welcoming for others <-- There is actually a pretty strong LGBT community in SLC.
Utah is amazing!
Utah is terrible. It would be foolish to rank it. Also why are we wasting time talking about non-top 5 programs? --- Utah is solid top ~10-15 program which is still very good even if it's not Harvard. Also Utah is okay, but Salt Lake City is incredible
you're really sabotaging my misinformation about Utah campaign << Sorry my bad :(
Did an away and grew up in SLC: If you like the outdoors, then it is a great place to train. People are generally nice. Relatively low crime. Not very much diversity if that is something important to you. Interestingly, one of the largest dermatology faculties in the nation, yet probably the least diverse. You might argue that this is reflective of the population of Utah, but other specialties at the U are WAY more diverse than derm. Some of this could be blamed on lack of diversity in derm as a whole and difficulty recruiting minorities to Utah, but come on... Not a single brown or black person on faculty of 40-50. Pretty shameful. << this. not having a brown or black person as a faculty in derm is not uncommon even in diverse/big programs... <examples?
utah is amazing!! my favorite state!
Thoughts on Cornell? Impressed with interview day but what's the reputation?
Seems like the best of both worlds. Incredible program and training and as far as reputation goes, it is very high up there. Cornell is an Ivy League name which is super reputable. Is it Harvard or Stanford, no, but I'd argue it's only the next tier down as far as prestige goes
<I don't have an answer but dont forget reputation is an extrinsic measure that doesn't tell you much. It is also highly contentious as this sheet has shown over the past months. Clinics, patient population, speciality exposure, fellowship match, research can all be considered individually according to what matters to you. If rep matters though you can factor that in, but again it is super contentious, mostly research based, and seems made up half the time (aka loudest ppl on google sheet determine the accepted rep)
Is no continuity clinic a dealbreaker for anyone?
Nothing’s a total dealbreaker but no CC means a huge lack of autonomy and a rough transition to reality
There has got to be a qualitative difference between CCs, though. You'd learn a lot more if the patients were specifically put on your schedule and you had to do all the call-backs / follow-ups for this patient vs patients being assigned to the attending, and you observe how the attending manages the patient
I think having continuty clinic is pretty important. Harvard doesnt have a real CC for example, and it went lower on my rank list (for that reason and a few other reasons)
Hello derm applicants. Sorry for creeping in on your spreadsheet, but I try to post every year with a few encouraging words. I am currently a pgy4 chief resident at a program in the midwest. I failed to match as an MS4, and took the scenic route (internal med prelim, research fellowship at MGH, reapplied and matched at my #1). Not matching was really devastating, so my heart really goes out to anyone who ends up in a similar position. But, I am here to tell you that it is still very possible to match as a reapplicant, and you should not give up if derm is the only specialty that will give you career satisfaction. I am also happy to answer questions and provide advice to anyone who does not match. Email katieshahwan@gmail.com
<thank you for the encouragement! x5
Ok, good one Katie
<3
how can anyone not rank Harvard #1 after that email?
what did the email say!? For the peanut gallery
it was a nicely worded "thank you for coming" email, clarifying that this isn't about our position on the rank list. then some applicant-specific sentences pulled from ERAS, and the resources at Harvard that could best fit that applicant's interests ^ did all interviewees get that email?
I believe so, this was also the case last year
well they didn't interview me but I guess it couldn't hurt to rank them #1
I have met at least 2 people who are not ranking it 1 or 2 haha
with all due respect, that seems crazy to me. Biggest name, amazing faculty, PD with resident focus, research, etc
none of that matters when there are so many big egos and assholes there
< LOL at people who want to match there discouraging others from doing so. There are not egos/assholes at Harvard
bruh
There are egos and assholes everywhere. Harvard has some, but not as much as you might think.
I've also talked to a good number of people who ranked/will rank Harvard lower on their list. A lot of them have ties to other regions, and for those who don't, they felt that another top 5 program fit their interests better. There's also something to be said about Havard's residency program being "shared" among 3 different dermatology departments; there is invariably a less unified vision for the program.
Are people replying to this email?
Too add to the prestige vs fit discussion, I think it is a balance. For example if someone was deciding between Harvard and Random Program of Random State, and felt like they liked RPRS a bit more or felt it was a better fit, but they also liked Harvard, it would make a lot of sense to go with Harvard, even if it isn't as good a fit. If they're both reasonably good options then I think prestige is worth it. On the other hand, if the same person hated Harvard and knew they'd be miserable in the city or program, and truly couldn't see themselves happy there, and they felt that RPRS was a good fit, then it would make a lot of sense to rank RPRS over Harvard. I guess what I'm saying is that the issue is not black and white and you shouldn't let a somewhat better subjective "fit" knock out an objectively better program, nor should you pick a more prestigious program that you hate over one that is lower ranked but you'd be happy at. - Not hating on RPRS btw, it was just the first school I thought of
I think the comment to the left is sort of misguided. Prestige is certainly one way to tie-break. But you can rank more prestigious programs that you loved lower than ones that you liked less but that is not geographically where you want to be. If you don't have any ties to a particular area, then yea, prestige and overall fit of a program is a great way to direct your rankings. Some people are more career minded and some people want other things in life. Everyone's approach to ranking will be different based on a balance of career and non-career life goals, where some people value one over the other more highly. And no I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from ranking a top program haha you do you people. But the overrepresentation of people who are being considered for these top programs is amazing.
op here again. I agree that family or geographic restrictions trump both fit and prestige. moving away from loved ones for 3 to 4 years is not a good idea <okay cool haha then we're on the same page :) you mean if all other factors are equal, including geography.
would like to add that moving away from loved ones for 3-4 years *during these very pivotal relationship-forming/building years of our lives* is not a good idea.
For the record, a few of the prestigious programs like Harvard and Northwestern aren’t even making my Top 5. It’s so tough to rank based on “fit” vs city vs prestige. For anyone else struggling I say do what makes YOU happiest. Easier said than done but know you’re not alone in the struggle of deciding. x2
Thank you <3 this is helpful. I recently made the decision to do similarly and I've been feeling conflicted. < could you elaborate a bit on what part of Harvard or Northwestern you didn't jive with? Facing the same (happy) problem right now.
everyone gunning for MGH and posting "i ranked it last" to convince others to do the same. only way to game the system, kudos.
<it's derm, you can do anything you want with training at most places. Go with what makes you and your SO happy x2
Current PGY-1. Ranked places closer to family ahead of top tier programs because ultimatelymy SO and I decided that we would be happier at those programs and they would be more supportive of any career path. Make your ranklist however YOU want to and dont let people on a spreadsheet, Doximity rankings, prestige, etc tell you how to rank places. WWYD really doesnt matter because everyone and every situation is different
i really want to believe in the positivity of these messages but the cynic in me says it's just applicants fucking other applicants over.
OP: really not my intention. I just want to admit that I personally struggled and it feels WEIRD to look at these top programs lower on my list but it works for me and just wanted to put it out there because I know a lot of people are struggling with the same thought process.
also posted about this and definitely not trying to screw anyone over. I wanna be close to family
Also, on the flip side, I would argue that if name/prestige DOES matter to you, then rank it that way! This makes it seem like it's black and white, that you're sacrificing something to rank the top programs higher. But sometimes there's a reason why top programs are top!
Please don't rank NYU, thats my top.. kthxbi
Who actually considers northwestern top 5 is my question
anyone else get RTM?
<The Stanford and Harvard posts were lies
I got Harvard and NYU RTM calls x 4 <lol
pretty sure NYU said specifically that they would not be contacting us
They just said that to the scrubs
so you mean when the PD said that to the entire interview day, she decided we were all scrubs? lmao
any benefits to doing a tough prelim medicine year? like Johns Hopkins or MGH
row 10 // benefit only if you don't match 1st time
or if you really love medicine!!
< Also good networking - meeting other co-residents maybe even a future husband WINK WINK
< is it just me, or have most of the residents you've met on the trail been married / in a long-term relationship? x4
Forreal didn’t have a single interview trail spark and I’m so disappointed <Every time I had a spark they brought up the fiance
<is it mostly men or women complaining about this?< both
Is the Harvard RTM call real?
harvard hasn't done post interview comm in years and they are not starting this year
< what a joke whoever posted that. harvard emailed everyone they interviewed last year with post interview comm, did not reflect rank list positions
Harvard RTM call
is this real?
<At least post it at a time that makes it seem more realistic
Some posts are shown because their comments mention this program.
i guess fuck anyone who doesn't have 3 interviews lol