Mass General Brigham-MA

stanford << disagree. Residents talked more with each other than with applicants during the resident dinner lol -- just goes to show how tight knit and happy of a group they are. (or how little they actually see of each other)

I thought the people at Harvard were fantastic x2.

The Harvard residents are super shady. They have secret hang-outs but dont invite the residents that arent "cool" enough. Serious mean girls shit. Lol. Very clique-y.

Wait where did you hear this? FAKE NEWSSSSS << I didn't "hear" it. I experienced it. If you don't believe me, go confront one of the "popular" residents about it.

LOL love how in the cell to the left Stanford residents are called tight knit and happy for sticking together and Harvard residents are called cliquey

If you feel "left out" by the residency class, maybe you're the weird one

harsh lol

Penn > UCSF > Stanford = Harvard >> all others . (x2 though I did not go to one of these, I have the same order for the other 3, but it varies alot with who you happened to talk to) ^sounds like someone's desperate to go to Harvard/UCSF/Stanford : )

haha I agree with this order, and I am ranking Penn 1. If people are actually trying to alter ranks by these orders, that is kinda sad....if it works that's even more sad lol

UCSF and Penn were my favorites x5 <- damn lol, you guys are very lucky to have interviewed at both

didn't interview at UCSF, but had the other 4 "top 5" programs and agree Penn residents seem closest. I would put NYU up there as well

utsw residents were chill! did not expect that x2

very pleasant surprise. The program moved up on my list based on the people there which I was not expecting

Hopkins residents were so fun and nice! x3

< i wouldn't sleep either if i had a harvard dinner

Is this a Harvrd trickle? Who would drop a Harvard interview?

you'd be surprised

Possibly someone couple's matching or they're sick?

or they dont want to be running all over cold ass Boston as a Harvard resident.

I would run all over cold ass boston naked to be a resident there x2 i would do the former all while eating a poop hotdog to be there <-- make it 3 poop hot dogs and I'd stil be in

Massachusetts native chiming in to say, it's really NOT that cold! California is constantly about to break away and fall into the ocean OR on fire. If you've ever experienced a humid AF Southern summer, you'd know that running around Atlanta or Nashville in that heat will at best leave you a sweaty mess and at worse just kill you. During an away in tornado country, ppl casually told me that if one happened i should get in the bathtub and pull a mattress over me. I was like....so they're gonna find my body in the narrow ass hallway crushed under a full sized mattress?? I'll take my cold and snow. Also, get a good parka and it's like you're sitting by a warm fire all the time. <--- Agreed, I would take some cold winters over the hot muggy sumemrs down south any day. << lol that you think Atlanta and Nashville are hot. Those are mild compared to the rest of the south << like I said, I'm a Massachusetts native and I'd melt in Florida

??? Harvard isn't the only school/hospital system in Boston.. also what else should boston people say when asked "where are you coming from?".. (I'm not even from Boston)x1< I think what he is saying people that say they "go to school in boston" are stuck up becuz they know Harvard is there and they trying to imply they go there. Bitches should just say they go to Tufts and not somewhere "in boston", its deliberate misleading, like when you on a blind date with a guy and kinda lie about some things to make him like you... same thing

Umm, there's technically Tufts and BU as well x5

<- i feel like a lot is based on history no? I know at NYU they trained some of the trailblazers in derm (like way way back) and it was also big during the AIDS epidemic -- That's good to know. Tbh, I actually don't know much of anything about derm history, and wasn't aware. So do you think they got their reputation mostly based on years of continuous contributions to the field?

NYU is the top creme de la creme program.

i would cream myself to match any of the top 5 x2 <My mentors have mentioned slightly different lists to me that they consider the top programs (though 3-4 of those always make the list), so it is all subjective. <<< Thanks for the input, good to know that they may not be as static as they seem

< would love to hear your mentors lists

Tufts, Harvard, BU, UCLA, UCSF

LOL <why are 3/5 in Boston? That just doesn't sound right to me.

Penn, NYU, Harvard, UCSF, Stanford (geography/city playing a role, but hoping for Penn) . <<tbh glad I do not have all of these. It would be too hard to choose

in terms of what? clinical vs research vs ... they are very different programs

In terms of whatever matters to you.

Clinically: UCSF, Penn>Harvard>Stanford>NYU

< really? I feel like clinically NYU would be the strongest by far because you're spending 2/3 of your entire residency at the VA+county/public hospital = lots of autonomy. << LOL that person has no idea what they're talking about. Clinically, it's UCSF > NYU > Harvard > Stanford > Penn. Overall reputation is Harvard > Stanford > Penn > UCSF > NYU << lol at these absurd rankings, true delusion

I've heard it's UCSF > Harvard > Stanford > NYU > Penn

Its almost as if the top 5 is interchangable and it really comes down to personal preferences and biases

haha so true x3

Look at last year’s rank sheet. Penn was most popular #1 rank then Stanford out of the top 5.

because everyone definitely writes their ranking and is definitely honest about it too

lol'ed at that gullible person

< there is literally no benefit to faking what you are ranking 1 because that only would dissuade people from also listing that one, which ends up in them possibly ranking where you actually want to go as 1. Also, it's anonymous. It's not each person's specific rank, but a tally of how many people are rankin each program a certain number on their list so there is very little benefit to lying. There is usually a 1/5 yield, so it's actually a good amount of people of the interviewees.

< https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16WyBDd4BhLhqR5F5BWMLRAKtq_Na3d9DHyokLtUg0rA/edit#gid=596104293

was offered both

<< i got neither so I guess that's a possibility << lolol

YES you do. Heard Harvard interview has some clinical vignettes (diagnosis + treatment) <uhm, never heard this before and pretty sure this did not take place last year so not sure what the source is

heard it from a resident there this year. Will see next week, but I'd at least brush up on things if you have an interview there

Yes, this happens daily on dermatology rotations. Good faculty will often take the opportunity to ask you what something is, or to come up with a differential, or pimp you

Op did you mean interviews or clinical rotations?

sorry meant interviews! I need sleep...

lol, in that case no. However some people have asked about specific case reports I wrote

< can't say personally that I know specifics but have definitely heard from current residents ranking non top 5-10 places higher than such prestigious places for much better environments supporting of any career path.

If you want to do Mohs, it can be helpful to choose a program that has a Mohs fellowship (for instance, Stanford does not). You may want to also consider that certain top programs may be less likely to want to train their own residents. For instance, I've heard UCSF sometimes prioritizes non-UCSF residents for Mohs fellowship slots - in that case, the reasoning is they'd prefer to train people who'd be less likely to stay in the Bay Area as the market is already saturated there and they don't want to train more "competition" for their own practice. That's certainly not to say that any of those top programs won't be super supportive in your application to other top programs. It's honestly probably a case-by-case thing. << that's a BS made up story. They dont care if you stay in the area. You aren't "competition" for them. If that ridiculous postulation were true, no program would train people from their home program for fear of "competition" to their practice. Ridiculous. >> the competition piece is a common concern for Mohs surgeons, so it is true.. not sure who feels so confidents its not, it is, it is well known in the Mohs field that people dont want to train their own competitoin -- certainly not all mohs surgeons, but about 50% probably feel this way including some at academic institutions<< that may be true overall but the OP was specifically saying this about UCSf and it should have been a more general statement, because it doesnt only apply to UCSF. << seems like the OP is just trying to make UCSF look bad when, in actuality, it is probably one of the most supportive programs in the top 5 for Mohs

<--That's not true at all. UCSF basically always offers to keep their residents if they want to stay. I know that for a fact. They've had plenty of years where 2/3 or 3/3 fellows were UCSF residents.

OP here. This is based off discussions with a former UCSF resident who wanted to stay at UCSF but did not match there. I have no idea what this specific residents relationship with the department was...but can you tell you this is honest and true information I discussed with said resident. UCSF is a great and supportive training program. And this person did match elsewhere at a great program. Honestly not trying to mislead anyone. << one residnet not matching at their program doesn't mean "they dont like to keep their own residents." That was likely a resident specific issue. It's not helpful when you use broad/sweeping statements. <--- OP again. The way I was explained this was this was the "culture" at UCSF for Mohs - and same logic was applied to other internal applicants that year. I also personally know my own program's Mohs fellowship director prefers not to take internal candidates - though he's very supportive of getting them matched elsewhere. His rationale is more that he prefers to bring in "new" people to the program, rather than preventing "competition", though our metro area is also admittedly saturated with Mohs surgeons and it is difficult to impossible to find a full time position. I've also heard of other programs - like Mayo Rochester for instance - highly favor internal applicants. It's an institution-specific thing.

I will second the fact that its common knowledge that many places don't want to train their competition for Mohs. I have no knowledge about which specific programs / if this applies to UCSF, but just backing up the OP in saying that this line of thinking would not be out of place as it is prevalent in the Mohs field <<To echo this, this is true for many subspeciality fellowships in many different fields. New fields that are not recognized fellowships yet often have fellows sign noncompetes today which was true for some Mohs programs 15-20 years ago (and probably still true for the some that are not ACGME). Now, most fellowships can't have official noncompetes, but they will try to pick applicants with that in mind...medicine is a business.

this is true and has actually been studied/reported in the literature. https://journals.lww.com/dermatologicsurgery/Citation/2019/10000/Micrographic_Surgery_and_Dermatologic_Oncology.15.aspx

< Who's going to give up a Harvard interview? << ok sassy dude

might want to look up the definition of sassy

Anyone know how many applicants interview for Med-Derm positions? For NW, Penn, Harvard, etc.?

< thank you!!

I heard Harvard PD is bizarre. Seems nice but when I was rotating all residents really didn't respect her. Didn't feel that they had her support for fellowship or in their electives. UT Southwestern PD. THat program will chastize you for not going academic or not doing research. Plus he is one weird due. No denying UTSW you will come out well-trained and is a reputable program, but faculty is just not the nicest most supportive people (pending your goal).

<did not find this to be the case at all, also rotated there (and full disclosure, rejected with no interview). This feels like its spreading misinformation... << I would not just dismiss this as fake news. I rotated there as well and also felt like this PD was not present in residents' experience. Wasn't a big surprise to me given how big the program is, until I rotated at some other big programs and saw the difference in PD <uh, this is just not true at all the residents love the PD there wtflol

are all of you guys talking about harvard or utsw?<< Harvard. Residents don't like the PD there. <UTSW, I have never met hardvard PD; interviewwed at UTSW, he is an odd mofo. Other faculty isnt exactly pleasant either. UTSW is proud of their program though. Kim Yancey (the chair) is pretty cool and nice; I wonder if people have the same read as I do

ah ok! I was just wondering because I have heard conflicting things about the harvard pd and didn't know what to make of it. I didn't rotate at harvard or UTSW (and didn't interview at UTSW either) so I can't add to the discussion but maybe someone else here as a read on the UTSW PD they could share with you!

Agreed, just another example of fake news on the spreadsheet

this is what everyone says when they are butt hurt about their program being talked about negatively. Seems like theres no negatives to any programs!

Not misinfo, heard similar about Harvard PD. She's out of touch and awkward, doesn't seem to really know residents x4

ok cool thanks for sharing --- same high teens interviews, not a single top 20 program

That actually sucks. Sorry! Make sure to tell them that so they know

That sounds like a bad idea for multiple reasons. You're there to impress them, not make them feel sorry/pity/worried for you. (also, they may start to wonder, "wait, we gave him/her an interview, but why did ranks 5-15 pass him/her over?). Also, you're likely to be a student from Stanford/NYU/Harvard, and at 3 interviews, I'd get nervous and reach out to your medical school mentor and start making calls. I'm from one of those schools, and I definitely know a number of people who matched at their #3 and below.

it’s not pity it’s clear communication. Who ever is saying not to communicate that is wrong.

i have a feeling that you're trying to sabotage this person's chances.

yeah you should never mention that you have a low # of interviews to programs, wtf at whoever said that

Seriously, what could they possibly say? "Hey, Stanford, I only have interviews from two other top schools (I won't say which ones because that would be rude and I want to keep the discussion to US), so I'm in danger of not matching. Would you please rank me to match so I don't have to repeat this process?" Yeah, right.

You obviously wouldn’t say it like that. But I would work in a way to say that your application has a lot of research publication and I only interested in training at an academic center and there are few programs which would satisfy my ultimate career goals and truly align with my passion for x,y,z including (insert Stanford/NYU/whatever) if youre bold you could even say something like “I only have 3 interviews, granted they are at top academic programs and I’m aware that statistically speaking this decreases my chances of matching. That being said dermatology is my passion and if i didnt match i would continue to pursue my research interests and reapply”. God, be creative people. <-- the second part sounds transparently terrible to be honest. the first part is generic (all 2 applicants say something like that when asked "why program X") and doesn't even let on that you only have 3 interviews

OP is probably a student at Harvard, NYU or Stanford so he/she will match somewhere x2

as a student in one of these schools I think you'd be surprised at how many people don't match. I think its partially due to hubris

Gotta get someone reliable and known to make calls ASAP to realistic match spots (mid and lower teir, geographically compatible with application)

The process is crazy. I have top 10 interviews and only 10 total, but other people from my school have more and I know my scores are higher. I know there are multiple favors going in to selecting for interviews but I kind of check off a lot of the other boxes also. I almost think some programs see 270 and think I won’t go there or that I’m maybe not normal.

Harvard all the way, better research, excellent clinical training, incredible faculty mentorship and alumni network, could go on and on<<then why is NYU ranked higher

good question; i would not place too much emphasis on rankings as they are liable to change and depend on a lot of factors that dont directly impact residents imo

Both are amazing places to train, but Harvard has the edge on research, while NYU has the edge on clinical training. Both of them are great at both things, of course, which is why they're both top programs. Cant go wrong with either, just depends which aspect you want a little more emphasis on.<any thoughts on which program is more amenable to someone who wants to do Mohs in the future?

definitely NOT NYU..

Dude, Harvard is Harvard. Enough said :)

y’all can have Harvard. Unless you have strictly academic goals I wouldn’t say it’s all that.

Idk I feel like the Harvard name is powerful, even if you want to go private. Not sure the average patient on the west coast has heard of NYU, but Harvard is instant cache anywhere <No arguments on the Harvard name, and maybe its my east coast bias showing, but I can't believe west coast people would not have heard of NYU ... <Agreed. NYU is the most applied to private university in the country... pretty sure name recognition/brand awareness is not an issue for them. Plus, anecdotally, as someone from the west coast, everyone I know has heard of the school and generally holds it in high regard.

Harvard all the way, Elle Woods is my girl

Harvard. More prestige, more opportunities x2

Wondering if this is true. Isn't Stanford seen as more prestigious on the West Coast vs Harvard?

in the original book, elle woods actually goes to stanford law school!! fun fact!! (but also i vote harvard over stanford here)

I would pick Stanford over Harvard because the residents seem happier and get to know their attendings very well (and the location only helps!) <I'm not in love with the location for Stanford. I prefer SF, Boston, Philly (aka more directly in the city) though I'll probably rank east coast over west so biased

Stanford

Harvard!! great exposure with huge faculty with things going on in all areas of derm. Lets you find where you want to focus and really flourish in that area. Stanford also seems great, but my pre-interview thoughts have Harvard and a couple programs above Stanford

You honestly can't go wrong at all either way but I will say, having rotated at one of these places, thereis a reason that the residents at Stanford are stereotyped to be the happiest in the country. The faculty know and care about them a LOT, especially in comparison to some conversations I've had with residents from both places. But again, can't go wrong.