U Rochester/Strong Memorial-NY

< can't say personally that I know specifics but have definitely heard from current residents ranking non top 5-10 places higher than such prestigious places for much better environments supporting of any career path.

If you want to do Mohs, it can be helpful to choose a program that has a Mohs fellowship (for instance, Stanford does not). You may want to also consider that certain top programs may be less likely to want to train their own residents. For instance, I've heard UCSF sometimes prioritizes non-UCSF residents for Mohs fellowship slots - in that case, the reasoning is they'd prefer to train people who'd be less likely to stay in the Bay Area as the market is already saturated there and they don't want to train more "competition" for their own practice. That's certainly not to say that any of those top programs won't be super supportive in your application to other top programs. It's honestly probably a case-by-case thing. << that's a BS made up story. They dont care if you stay in the area. You aren't "competition" for them. If that ridiculous postulation were true, no program would train people from their home program for fear of "competition" to their practice. Ridiculous. >> the competition piece is a common concern for Mohs surgeons, so it is true.. not sure who feels so confidents its not, it is, it is well known in the Mohs field that people dont want to train their own competitoin -- certainly not all mohs surgeons, but about 50% probably feel this way including some at academic institutions<< that may be true overall but the OP was specifically saying this about UCSf and it should have been a more general statement, because it doesnt only apply to UCSF. << seems like the OP is just trying to make UCSF look bad when, in actuality, it is probably one of the most supportive programs in the top 5 for Mohs

<--That's not true at all. UCSF basically always offers to keep their residents if they want to stay. I know that for a fact. They've had plenty of years where 2/3 or 3/3 fellows were UCSF residents.

OP here. This is based off discussions with a former UCSF resident who wanted to stay at UCSF but did not match there. I have no idea what this specific residents relationship with the department was...but can you tell you this is honest and true information I discussed with said resident. UCSF is a great and supportive training program. And this person did match elsewhere at a great program. Honestly not trying to mislead anyone. << one residnet not matching at their program doesn't mean "they dont like to keep their own residents." That was likely a resident specific issue. It's not helpful when you use broad/sweeping statements. <--- OP again. The way I was explained this was this was the "culture" at UCSF for Mohs - and same logic was applied to other internal applicants that year. I also personally know my own program's Mohs fellowship director prefers not to take internal candidates - though he's very supportive of getting them matched elsewhere. His rationale is more that he prefers to bring in "new" people to the program, rather than preventing "competition", though our metro area is also admittedly saturated with Mohs surgeons and it is difficult to impossible to find a full time position. I've also heard of other programs - like Mayo Rochester for instance - highly favor internal applicants. It's an institution-specific thing.

I will second the fact that its common knowledge that many places don't want to train their competition for Mohs. I have no knowledge about which specific programs / if this applies to UCSF, but just backing up the OP in saying that this line of thinking would not be out of place as it is prevalent in the Mohs field <<To echo this, this is true for many subspeciality fellowships in many different fields. New fields that are not recognized fellowships yet often have fellows sign noncompetes today which was true for some Mohs programs 15-20 years ago (and probably still true for the some that are not ACGME). Now, most fellowships can't have official noncompetes, but they will try to pick applicants with that in mind...medicine is a business.

this is true and has actually been studied/reported in the literature. https://journals.lww.com/dermatologicsurgery/Citation/2019/10000/Micrographic_Surgery_and_Dermatologic_Oncology.15.aspx

<has anyone interviewed there yet? I thought they were all in january

< I thought they had one in Dec.

Have not heard of any movement yet :(

I'm certain that people have cancelled the 1/14 date because of overlaps, but I'm surprised that there's been no sign of waitlist movement

I've heard that you get your own secretary at Mayo and very little scut. Don't know if true

Rochester MN is about 10-15F colder than Ann Arbor

Have also heard the rumor that Mayo gives more support staff. Rochester is more boring and colder than Ann Arbor with the qualifier that both are cold. Ann Arbor has stuff around it but Rochester is really isolated.

Oops, it was 73, not 63 (fixed). And its expanded listing specify 4 positions per year, so I have a feeling that it's only for the derm spots. What's the point of interviewing so many people -_-

how do we access this information?? x2

Other interesting facts: accoriding to program information, UTSW interviewed 65 for 9-11 spots, Mayo Rochester interviewed 55 for 8 spots...

<Northwestern may have been really high last year b/c they had A TON (I think 12?) of internal applicants (not including rotators - though rotators don't all get intervews).

I'm also surprised that their step i is slig lu below average for the general population of derm applicants.

look at other programs on there. They all have crazy low step scores reported. No way is the average for NW less than 250. I think programs lie.

<- as a reference, there were about 24-26 interviewees at the nu internal day (home students, away rotators, re applicants, and research fellows)

i thought mayo was all suit, all the time

Scrubs on surgery and inpatient consults. Otherwise you wear a suit

How about Mayo Rochester?

<yes x2 <yes off Mayo Rochester waitlist or just in general?

Mayo Clinic in Rochester?

yes. They seem like they are of comparable rank. NW is in the top 10. Definitely can't compare NW with Rochester or UTSW. < You can't go wrong with any of these. I feel like you're splitting hairs with regard to quality of training and should be basing your decision off of location. x2

UTSW is known to be INTENSE you will be HIGHLY trained. Northwestern AMAZING Pediatric dermatology exposure & Mohs. Mayo = Great COMPLEX med derm and research support (you get dedicated research assistants etc.) Depends on your career goals. ALL will prepare you for Academic Medicine. If you want to do Mohs I would say UTSW>NW>Mayo If you want PEDS NW>Mayo>UTSW

Go to Northwestern. You'll be glad you did.

False completely. If mohs, go to Mayo, they have 3 internal spots, and in recent recent years, they have matched 5-6 residents yearly to mohs. However, they are not well known to churning out academic derm (last 3 years, no one is going to academic). They really care about fits more than score, medical school reputation and research

<even with name, they have TREMENDOUS difficulty attracting actual top tier applicants, Rochester is just... you know

No, they attached a sheet with hotel rates too

Which Derm programs offer free hotel? Henry Ford, Mayo-Rochester, Mayo-AZ... others? Penn State, I'm there this week.

Nice

Geisinger pays fo hotel as well

Mayo-Jacksonville too

Southern Illinois university as well