Hosp of the Univ of PA (Dermatology/3 yr)

Feel like it depends on all of the other factors of your application (Step score, mentors/letters, med school prestige, etc.) ofc having all honors and lots of research would be better than either so it's hard to compare those scenarios without looking at everything else

>the neurotic 270+ step 2, all honors, 20+ research derm applicant is few and far between. Believe in yourself - not all applicants are perfect. theyre average :). Aim for as many honors as you feasibly can, handful of pubs, show people you're likeable. that'll take you farther than grades and research at the end of the day

connections

does med school prestige really matter if youre not planning on going to a t10 derm program? (in terms of MD applicants)

i'd rather have a well balanced app w some honors and some pubs, than all honors 0 pubs but thats me

med school prestige is factored more for certain programs (defintely lower on the list in terms of factors assessed), agree about having a more well-rounded app

personality and fit is huge

is a 270+ strong research applicant really few and far between lol it seems like this is not uncommon?

I've heard of quite a few people with these stats, I think it's also important to consider mentors and who you know since that can influence one's chances of matching

agreed, and connections from away rotations make a huge difference in terms of "networking" as well. the loudest ones are the ones that have the best stats, but dont get into your head about it! > more good thoughts like this please, maybe we're all just delusional

also want to say, I feel on reddit and these spreadsheets, we tend to see people on the extremes in terms of stats and research while the "average" students who match tend to not put a bunch of stuff here making it seem like applicants are extraordinary

scores in 95% of cases, excluding the "top" programs which virtue signal about evaluating applicants holistically (looking at u UCSF). It's hilarious how they say they don't have cutoffs for board scores, but they magically end up matching residents with only the most insane stats >how do you know this info? They don't release stats publically, and UCSF seems to match many students who dont come from T5 programs.

Current R3/R4s come from: UCSD, UC Davis, UMich, UCSF, Hopkins, Emory, UCSF, Vandy, Northwestern, UCSF, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn. Idk seems pretty high ranking for programs (excluding the California bias)

You can also see what they tell their own students about required stats for matching (https://meded.ucsf.edu/student-services/specialty-information-and-advising#Dermatology), for example in their table "How important is each the following for admission to a competitive program?", where honors, AOA, and research are highly recommended

rotation mill, don't take away rotators, may be worth getting a letter

agreed completely. the letter could be helpful. Even if you're from a top school, I'd still target aways at other good institutions with a better track record for IV aways

Are there any "top" schools that *aren't* rotation mills? It seems like none of the academic programs' aways mean anything for interviews

emory and miami

I knew about emory, does miami also guaruntee an interview?

not sure, we have 5 internal students applying derm this year, at least 2 of us are going to be done with our home rotations by early summer, so I imagine there should be room (I believe we can accommodate up to 4 per month)> they are, the application just posted, i had to email them about it since it seems they forgot to post it

would love to know if UCSD is one of those programs where if you get an away it truly means they are considering you - I know other programs (wake forest, northwestern, penn) are rotation mills

UCSD would be so cool to rotate at but ik it's an investment so also wondering if it's worth rotating there>>> only do an away if you are from a prestigous school for them to consider you

Look at who they matched/prior matches, that should tell you everything (they love prestige)

would you consider coming from Sinai to be prestigious or nah

the prestige thing is super true for UCSD. I II'd there from a mid-tier school and I was the only one not from like a top 20 lol

groosssssss

they matched someone from Einstein this year and that was the "lowest" rank school they matched

seemed like they did an away there so maybe an away is worth doing if you aren't from a "top" school?

high bar to impress for sure, but only way to make an impression from lower tier schools, high risk high reward

Tulane

> Tulane is only for those who interviewed there

duke, UAB, SLU, sinai, Emory, melanoma fellowship, penn

i don't agree Emory

also i wouldn't say any of these are guaranteed. it should be *highly increases* your chances of matching

also i would directly talk to the research fellows that are coming from these RYs. If the mentors are saying one thing, and RY fellows that matched are saying another about their experiences, I'd be wary. Don't forget that many applicants have home programs and other sources of networking/support that could have contributed in very meaningful positive ways.

also if mentors don't offer to connect you with past research fellows who have matched i'd take that as a red flag

looking back at your experience so far in the derm match, would you choose Penn again? If not where do you wish you would've gone (specifics not needed, just curious).

Similar experience here at another med school with a top name derm program.

> honestly don't know, I picked Penn because of its name and ranking and defintely thought there would be more support for students interested in derm. Seems like HMS also isn't that supportive based on what's written below so idk what "top" schools support students interested in derm

similar to the penn story, i won't say what school but also T10? when i reached out to other programs, they were like oh you go to X school, work with them, they are your best bet!

POOP

I will say that coming from a top school that isn't supportive can hurt you because if you reach out to other programs for research opportunities they will say that "Penn has an amazing dept work with them" and then we are also told not to do aways as it will hurt our institution name (prob because they think we will underperform)

that's crazy, any other top schools telling their students not to do aways? do you guys tend to match good anyway?

we do match well but I think it's because there's a ton of us - like we have double digit derm matches but also a ton don't match - lots of us are told to extend graduation as we are reapplying as med students rather than residents - also doesn't hurt the match rate that way lol - some of the ppl here come in with crazy good connections and exisiting research PIs, it's the reality of going to a top school, lots of competition and not enough opportunities despite there being already so many because too much interest. I have friends at HMS that also have been advised not to do aways prob the same for the T10

duke specifically advises their students to do 2 aways (smart advisors) (actually that's new, and primarily student driven bc they've had consecutive years of students not matching)> yale also advised us not to do aways

coming from a T10 also hurts when applying to mid-tier/lower-tier/community programs because they think that you won't come there (when some of us only have interviews at these programs)

so true, coming from another T10 school here and people are not getting high numbers of interviews here despite being outstanding candidates in every respect, just think that a ton of programs assume we'll go to another top program so the mid/low tier programs are incredibly low yield. also not advised to do aways

ikr how many ii are you at? did your home offer you an interview?> i'm at 7II but I did 3 aways + home and networked! despite that one program telling me off. shouldve just left that program alone but i still applied and gave them a gold lol CLOWN move!

bigger clown move is complaining when you have 7 interviews. Go prep?

#cope! never complained. simply giving more insight into how top schools can "affect" you

my sister (applying med school rn) also wants to do derm, do i tell her Penn is not the place for derm? Had no idea Penn was like that. She interviewed there and it is her first choice.

i matched at a T5 and also did not get a call!

can you share some advice on how you matched at a t3 program? did you come from a top school?

can you share more about your profile matching to a t5? school tier, step 2 score, research, etc?

can you share more about your profile matching to a t5? school tier, step 2 score, research, etc?; Penn did multiple rtm calls confirmed

im totally not disputing this, im just reassuring future applicants that you can match a T5 without any rtm calls too, so there doesn't need to be fear mongering. i support all sharing of information

Penn did multiple rtm calls confirmed

OP: im totally not disputing this, im just reassuring future applicants that you can match a T5 without any rtm calls too, so there doesn't need to be fear mongering. i support all sharing of information and also did hear that penn and yale did rtm communications

can you share some advice on how you matched at a t3 program? did you come from a top school?q plus

lmfao @ wakeforest

did not know WF was such a golden program

im still not over the wake forest rejection >:( yeah i'm pretty sure markdown syntax doesn't render properly in google sheets. ugh not more gpt jokes , oh no chatgpt is back in the chat 🙄 >> There is zero vibes in Miami , a bunch of ego inflated attendings and weirdo residents that do not fit the extroverted / Miami energy of the city whatsoever.

do the residents at davis have hobbies?? lol and i do agree with the mohs factory being mayo

hated every second of reading this

im still not over the wake forest rejection >:( yeah i'm pretty sure markdown syntax doesn't render properly in google sheets. ugh not more gpt jokes , oh no chatgpt is back in the chat 🙄 >>

i matched at a T5 and also did not get a call!

Penn did multiple rtm calls confirmed

OP: im totally not disputing this, im just reassuring future applicants that you can match a T5 without any rtm calls too, so there doesn't need to be fear mongering. i support all sharing of information and also did hear that penn and yale did rtm communications

oop. i think there was a lot of misinformation floating around at the same time OP

there was just like one person who believed dogmatically that RTM calls don't exist. perseveration?

Too many people believe PD words and PD "rules". RTM calls happen and anyone who says they GUARANTEE they don't do it is full of themselves. For next cycle of applicant, they happen obviously

I heard firsthand from close friends who got RTM calls

I think people are just trying to cope, but also it's not helpful to insist on misinformation when people did get RTM calls (granted it seems like a small minority)

my own personal friend got an RTM call from a place that somebody on this spreadsheet said "they guarantee they do not do RTM calls".

just name the program lol

I got a call from a PD +all of the APDs on a group call who "definitely don't do them" according to this sheed

PENN.

penn was PD + chiefs, not PD + apds tho so must have been somewhere else rip

also all this being said, i received NO call from any program and i matched!!! i think the general attitude was that obviously RTM calls happen but to a minority of people and it's not necessary to match!

not necessary to match but necessary to match AT the program doing RTM?

penn was PD + chiefs, not PD + apds tho so must have been somewhere else...USCF??

UCSF ?

i also received no call and matched

penn was PD + chiefs, not PD + apds tho so must have been somewhere else...

why

bc i want to weigh my options before applying

you apply based on ties, connections, and location pref. Otherwise, everything else is basically RNG. Godspeed if you're aiming for T5

thank you, but connections and RNG aside, and im willing to move anywhere, are they created equal or is one going to give an edge? not trying to be a snob or anything. just want genuine info for life changing career decisions

Don't love the way the question was framed about which t5 is the "worst" - they are all great for different reasons (as are non T5 programs). Harvard is great for inpatient and complex med-derm along with network; less ideal for QoL. UCSF is great for clinical volume, location, mentorship; less ideal for QoL, exploring non-clinical interests given the more busy schedule/various sites. Penn is a good balance of clinical training, research, QoL but def leans much more academic and location is not for everyone. NYU is great for clinical volume, procedural derm, network, research; less ideal for those who aren't into NYC and its pace. Stanford is great for research, innovation, kind faculty; less ideal for Mohs, clinical volume/diversity. Just a few thougts, but again. Matching derm anywhere is a huge accomplishment - don't focus too much on the rankings, focus on the personal fit for you.

someone who thinks they're better than any of the T5s is about to get a rude awakening lol

current student here. Everyone is super chill, current PD is a DO, we have 3 Mohs surgeons you do a week with. Resident didactics are every weekday @7:45 am, attendings and residents are super willing to let you help with biopsies and such. again, we have 5 home students this year, and we tend to match about half home students, with the occasional 4 out of 5 residents being home students

I think 6 home students this year