Hosp of the Univ of PA (Dermatology/3 yr)

would also add UTSW https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/article/157864/practice-management/us-dermatology-residency-program-rankings-based/page/0/1 <<what is the difference between this article and the doximity rankings? Is there more validity to one vs the other? << lol, someone put UCLA in top tier (UCLA isn't even a Department, it's a Division) >> lol UCLA low tier for sure << realistically, probably middle to low, great overall health system but will always have hands tied and no real ability to grow

UCLA is a solid program, strong surgical training, lacks the super complex patients of some more intense programs but it depends on what you are looking for in your training << I don't think anyone's saying it's a bad program, just not a top tier, that's kind of silly

UCLA is the perfect example of a low-to-mid tier program that is nonetheless quite competitive given it's in California. Again, there's often a disconnect between prestige/quality of training and competitiveness. Location, location, location.

No way that Hopkins and UCLA would be top tier over Michigan and Mayo

Mid-tier: OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota, UPMC >> Would probably put MN as low tier? >> Thoughts? Why? >> Minnesota would probably be in same tier as OHSU, Iowa, UPMC. Iowa has great faculty, but I think it does suffer from being in a relatively non-diverse, predominately white, smallish-city in Iowa. Minnesota, OHSU, and UPMC are in more urban environments with at least UPMC and Minnesota having more ethnic / racial diversity, (Portland is super white as well). Also, no one should trust that MDedge nonsense x5

To be fair they tried to make an objective measure. Many of the opinions here leave out some good programs and add in top medical schools that are not top derm programs

MN, Iowa as med-high tier? Would drop UPMC to low tier (just feel like no residents really enjoy it there but maybe that's just me lol)? And Iowa usually as a top 20 program on almost all ranking systems (though you cant always trust these things so who knows). I think its one of those places that suffers in many peoples minds because they have a not-so great med school and its in the mid west, but the derm program is actually extremely well-respected independednt of those facts

1. Penn 2. UCSF 3. NYU 4. Harvard 5. Stanford 6. Northwestern 7. Emory 8. UTSW 9. Hopkins 10. Wash U 11. Mayo 12. Michigan 13. Iowa 14. HF 15. OHSU 16. Colorado 17. Minnesota 18. Utah 19. Cornell 20. Vanderbilt

<-What is this list based on? Its totally inaccurate. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are mid tier programs at best. No Yale? No UW? No Wisconsin? No Miami? No Sinai? Cornell over Columbia? UPMC is definitely mid to top tier. Also, tiers maybe, but I dont understand how you can possibly rank 1 vs. 3 vs. 8 off the cuff << yeah, 1-3 is pretty standard, gets messy with next 5 I was about to post how accurate this list is. Some of the programs listed above are no way in the conversation. You can maybe disagree with Wash U/Cornell to the left tho. I'd agree Vanderbilt too high too

<Yale for sure. x4 . Think that list is pretty accurate for top 20 minus Wash U, Cornell, and Vanderbilt. Would replace with Yale and Columbia. And Cleveland Clinic maybe. <<I question the order of some of these too. Hopkins is not a top 10 (but it is a top 20 probably). I agree that Sinai, miami, Columbia would also be top 20. Vandy should not be on that list and neither should a few others.

<How good are the following programs: UPMC, Hopkins, UCSD, Miami.

I think those are all decent programs (mid-top tier?). I would say that I typically view Hopkins as a mid-tier program (they don't have a lot of diversity in terms of training sites, though Hopkins itself is a great hospital). Miami is typically considered a Top 10 program - but they also are quite disorganized, old facilities, longer hours (Saturday clinics). UPMC takes a lot of MD/PhDs and has great Mohs training, though I never found their program actually attracts people who want to be there. UCSD is solid, somewhat basic-science focused. It's outshined by other programs in California (e.g. Stanford, UCSF, USC) and San Diego has great weather / beaches, though admittedly isn't the most exciting place to live / lacks a lot of arts / culture compared to most bigger cities in the United States.

name me a state with better Mexican food tho

I thought the people at Harvard were fantastic x2.

The Harvard residents are super shady. They have secret hang-outs but dont invite the residents that arent "cool" enough. Serious mean girls shit. Lol. Very clique-y.

Wait where did you hear this? FAKE NEWSSSSS << I didn't "hear" it. I experienced it. If you don't believe me, go confront one of the "popular" residents about it.

LOL love how in the cell to the left Stanford residents are called tight knit and happy for sticking together and Harvard residents are called cliquey

If you feel "left out" by the residency class, maybe you're the weird one

harsh lol

Penn > UCSF > Stanford = Harvard >> all others . (x2 though I did not go to one of these, I have the same order for the other 3, but it varies alot with who you happened to talk to) ^sounds like someone's desperate to go to Harvard/UCSF/Stanford : )

haha I agree with this order, and I am ranking Penn 1. If people are actually trying to alter ranks by these orders, that is kinda sad....if it works that's even more sad lol

UCSF and Penn were my favorites x5 <- damn lol, you guys are very lucky to have interviewed at both

didn't interview at UCSF, but had the other 4 "top 5" programs and agree Penn residents seem closest. I would put NYU up there as well

utsw residents were chill! did not expect that x2

very pleasant surprise. The program moved up on my list based on the people there which I was not expecting

Hopkins residents were so fun and nice! x3

people still sent LOI. The no thank you note thing is more to make it easier for us since it does not make an impact. LOI probably will not make an impact either, but if you want to it should be fine x2

Anyone have a sense how much these lists move? Feeling freaked out that im probably not ranked extremely highly anywhere and wondering whether ppl get in usually anyway even if no where really ranks them top 5-10

A lot of interviews interviewed the same people so that helps! One applicant can only take up 1 spot. I counted up all the unique spots that there are for my interviews ex 2 spots, 5 spots, 4 spots etc ... and that gave me some comfort

honestly, sometimes I just hope everyone gets what they want and nobody wants the same program as me. lol x2

Radio silence re: late breaking but not sure if they went out. Anyone hear rejection or acceptance?

just got notified today

accepted or rejected?

yes it was a mass email

how many people do Stanford interview?

thank you!

very unlikley to get trickles the other date since many people want to switch to that one since it does not have conflicts so they have waitlists / swaps for that date. There will probably be more trickles for 1/10 though at Brown and other programs.

lol this is funny I see this here, I’m a PGY 1 who did a research talk at penn state last year, I was the only one who didn’t wear a suit, also was one of only 2 people without a PhD. Didn’t really matter I think the talk went well and multiple attendings at interviews the following day seemed genuinely interested in what I had talked about... but it did stand out to me that I should have probably worn a suit lol

I think 1/16 and 1/23

Any idea how they prioritize these dates??

< thank you!!

don't think it's that high

Let's say 800 people apply... they probably interview 40-50 so max they're inteviewing is 5% of candidates... no? I mean ball park << when you say AND, you're multiplying stats right, so im going to assume that at least 90% of people missed out on all of Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, AND Penn

So to make this simpler, what are the chances of getting an interview at one the top 5, say UCSF, Harvard, Stanford, NYU, and Penn?

how many people do you think get all 5 of the top 5 places? 4/5? 3/5?

~10%, ~12%, ~15% respectively I'd say? ---- Probably 15-20 people get 5/5 for the top 5. I've realized that it's mostly the same people getting all the top 10 interviews." <- coming from one of these schools i can tell you that this is not the case and the number with all 5 is much fewer.

I'm sure there are some godly people out there with all of the top 5 plus the next top 5, and ideally they will drop some of them for the rest of us :p<<<guilty :) but have trickled many invites so wishing everyone the best of luck

sigh managed to get NYU/harvard/stanford/UCSF...and no penn...and ive lived near penn my whole life. idk what went wrong there, was my top choice

c'mon it's still a problem for this person << yea dude dont be a dick

literally no one's gonna want the 1/16 date since UCSF is 1/15, Penn is 1/16 and Stanford is 1/17 bro...and I'm assuming people getting these programs get the lot of the others...good luck x2 << Yeah if you look at the interview swap page a small group of elite are all having conflicts at the same dates and the same places. Nobody is going to "swap" a non-conflict for a potential conflict.

lolololololololololololol... sorry not actually taking joy from the conflicts, just laughing at the fact that the top programs are all interviewing the same people.

that was a stupid question on my end. what even is high/mid/low tier? like top 10/40/100 or something? but to harken back to your situation, the only things I can think of that could be adversely affecting you other than being from a "low" tier school would be not taking a research year / limited research or your geographical area. <I agree with you. I can't really think of much else besides geography and below average research. I have read all but one of my letters and they were strong. I really don't know what to do at this point.

I'm sorry, friend. I'm assuming it is then the combination of geography and below avg. research. But I'm also SURE you're going to get interviews. Just hang in there! Nothing else you can do now, and with a 260 you clearly worked hard already.

Yes minus the 260 :D

Glad to have you on my team << 260+ can give you that same "top tier" school curse where some programs may think you're out of their league. Hang in there, we're with you

im <260 but PhD (non-research track) and it doesn't look good. low tier school, did good aways, got LoR, SILENCE, it's crazy that this is happening.

0 interviews at all? <aside from internal no << did you get interviews from your aways?<--any updates for you?

top tier med school, 260+ Step 1, 15 publications, great LORs, 0 interview invitations. I'm devastated

Yooooo that SUCKS. Are there a lot of applicants from your school with your stats or better?

yes. double digit applicants, all similar .

damn I'm at a double digit school with way worse stats...now I know why I'm not getting invites

dang OP of this cell, man I feel for you. That is rough, but there is no way you do not match and get a lump sum of interviews at some point.

TBH, OP, if you're at a Harvard/Yale/Stanford etc. school, chances are you're going to match your home program. You're fine.

As someone from a top school with a top home program, not true. I wish that I could match into my program, but the schools want a residency class filled with the best folks from other great institutions to add influx of new idea, skills, and connections to the class. This is true ESPECIALLY if there are a ton of us.

im really starting to realize how big a factor the # of people applying from my school is

# of people applying is a factor but applicants from top schools are typically safer with fewer invites at top programs compared to non-top school candiates with mid/low tier interviews. Top programs want applicants from top schools so you're competing with a small pool of applicants for all the spots at Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Penn/UCSF etc.

This . If you look at the people in the Y/H/S/P etc. schools, 80% of residents are from that program, 15% from another Y/H/S/P etc., and MAYBE 1-2 a year from a more "random" school—and that person 100% either had a 100th percentile Step 1 score and/or connections. Also, if you look at their match lists from the past couple years, not a SINGLE one of those programs had an unmatched applicant. So not sure why you're "devastated" when you have a 100% chance of matching—and likely at your home or another top program (unless your personality sucks).

Swap out Yale for NYU, and you have the proper list of top programs.

I seriously dont know how this process works. thats insane . <<Not OP (have way lower stats than that lol), but as someone who goes to a top 5 place I can say with fact that there is not a 100% chance. I do not know how all top programs work, but the fact is even though we have more residents than the average program, the number of applicants from our school is greater than th enumber of spots. On top of that, our school does not rank its own first (but yes 1/2 the porgram tends to be our own/research/rotators). It is a top programs and it wants the best from the country. If you look at our match list it looks AMAZING, but it never mentions the people who do not match. I know for the last 3 years, there was 1 or more unmatched derm. We're all in this shit together

<--- I review applications. While there are some programs that highly value Step 1 score -- I think applicants overestimate how much most programs care about these things. I don't think there are any functional differences betweeen applications with a 240 versus 260 on Step 1. Again, the more important differentiators are clinical grades, letters of recommendation, research, and personal statement (probably in that order). << Agreed, and same is true for whether Top/Mid med school

< It's really heartening to know that, thank you! Do you know if most programs feel the same way you and the program you're at does about scores? And what programs really do care a lot about scores?

< does anyone know if school look at clinical grades out of 6 or 7 rotations? (aka including neurology or not?)

<< because some creep that didn't match may search me up and try to kill me x3<um no.< I'm scared of that crazy guy that didn't get into penn....that dude holds a grudge

x1000 look at the match list now <lmaooo wtffff

this is why we can't have nice things

as if this information wont be posted online in a year or so< time heals all wounds... those that didn't match can have crazy thoughs, be careful

<where did these people match?

I think UChicago and Yale guys are at Harvard

That was mean

what a troll, I'm getting off this spreadsheet lol

LOLOL sorry

on the opposite end, looking at the list stressed me out because places I ranked high others didn't and places I ranked low others ranked high. Makes me wonder if I messed up my ROL x2

Its not really a surprise that people are ranking places like Harvard, Penn, Stanford, UCSF, etc. highly...

mrw no one is ranking my #1 as #1 or #2, which means i might match there and i would be very happy :))

yea Penn's website says by 11/25 I believe<<any source on hopkins coming out this week?

<<people have been saying Hopkins for the last 2 weeks lol

yes penn internal was this month

op of this box: totally misread that as 12/9 sorry for the confusion don't think 1/9 is internal only

1/9 is for people who are lower on the pre-interview rank list. Dec was internal

Where do you get this information from that 1/9 is for lower on rank list <lmao you people

<< Lol at this troll. 1/9 is not internal and date has nothing to do with rank list.

Speaking of this, does anyone know on average how far down their list people tend to match? do most people match into one of their top three? -- Absolutely not in derm, some do, but I doubt it's even half. I have the same question, maybe a PGY-1 who already match or a derm resident can help with this one <^PGY1 matched last year. This is a great question, there's no good data on this, it's anecdotal and you have to reason through it. The overall answer is, it's not as common to match top #1-3 as in IM or EM or Peds etc (larger specialties) because class sizes are so much smaller, and it's more competitive. It's also not uncommon, at least to match within your top 3. The way I see it play out is, there's kind of 2 scenarios (2 kinds of applicants) where you're MORE LIKELY to match #1 (not a guarantee and not the only 2 ways but just more likely) -Scenario 1: If you're a very strong applicant and have multiple top 5/10/20 invites, AND one of those programs is your #1 etc., you're more likely to match at your top choice. Those programs usually have larger class sizes so the statistics are much in your favor. Furthermore you're in a group of top applicants who will sort themselves out based on geographic preferences more than actual program rankings (they're all kinda similar in the top 10). -Scenario 2: You're a good applicant overall, and your top #1etc. choice is a program of superior interest or fit to you - e.g. your #1 happens to be your home program where everyone loves you and wants you to stay, or you are from a program that's in your hometown which is very regional - for example let's say your #1 is Penn State and you're from Hershey PA and you make it known you want to be there with family - then you're much more likely to match there as long as they liked you since they know you're a safe choice for coming there and having support etc. This is kind of a niche so you'll know if you're a scenario 2 applicant. -also this is all just like my opinion man

< on last year's spreadsheet, on the stats tab, lots of people matched at their 1st and 2nd choices, but it's hard to get a sense of overall how people match

Yeah but maybe thats just a bias based on the people who posted

<PGY-1 matched last year to #12, but honestly not at all dissapointed. There is a notion that not matching #1 there is something wrong with you/ you would be unhappy. Truthfully I would be dissapointed if I matched #15 and 16, but otherwise I would be ecstatic anywhere else.

<- I only have literally half the number of interviews (6). This does not bode well for me :(

< ya super scary for us folks that cant really go 10+ deep into our rank list because we dont have that many invites