Hosp of the Univ of PA (Dermatology/3 yr)

any away rotators get this??< I rotated and got rejected

that sucks, I know the feeling. sorry friend.

OMG

AHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Congrats!!! Are you guys internals or rotators? Do we think all interviews have gone out already?! <-- someone posted they were external and assigned a date so hard to say if all invites have gone out

i feel like they're sending everything today but sounds like they are sending individual emails so not sure if they're done with all the emails

CONGRATS!!!!!!!

<-- did your email also contain an assigned date to interview?

<- not OP but yes, was assigned 1/16 (external, no ties to east coast/aways) <<personal or group email? <-- email had attached letter pdf with my name

also external, no ties or connections, did an away on the east coast though, got a PDF with my name and letter telling me my interview date <please tell us your secret x2

No secrets, i am coming from a low tier school but have good scores, research everything else etc. I wrote a personalized personal statement to them so I think that helped

Also low-tier school with good scores and some research. Really really want academic derm and thankful for this opportunity!

< ok here's an example. in ADDITION to being a rockstar applicant, connections are what get you to the top programs. example: one of the people who matched penn last year? her brother is a resident in the derm program at harvard and presumably knows the harvard and penn PD well. that sort of thing.

fml looks like my parents should have had more kids

LOL same. But I'm just saying this to say that you REALLY shouldn't feel bad / wonder why you're not getting an interview to top programs. There is SO much backdoor dealings etc that go on behind the scene that in reality almost none of the slots are open to just a good applicant without any STRONG connections of some sort. <- another example: one of the UCSF residents has an uncle who is a dermatologist at UCSF

LMAOOOO this is too good

But I thikn the IN ADDITION point is important, having a connection but being mediocre doesnt work as far as I can tell.

<so if we got an interview to a top program without being internal or rotator, do we assume someone had a connection or said something on your behalf?

no, assume you just got an invite, but know chances are low you won't match :)

That's not nice >:(. OP, you've earned that interview, especially without obvious connections. You should go rock it and show everyone what you're made of.

sometimes the truth isn't nice :/

Or maybe you shouldn't take out your frustriations on random people online.<<with that mindset, people wouldnt match from external schools then

not true, the girl who matched penn whose brother is a derm resident at harvard went to northwestern. and to the other person, that's pretty presumptous of you - I'm just being honest. How you decide to take that honesty is on you, not me.<<well thats exactly what im saying, barring no other "real connections" how do people match at a program they are not from.

to be clear, outside of the top 10 programs it's a whole different world. This level of neoptism is almost unique to these programs. <- equivalent of legacy status for undergrad

I knew an applicant who's father-in-law was the chair of a derm department....so needless to say they got an interview at that institution. Other "ties" are research. Some programs really favor their research fellows....who can spend one year or MORE doing research for the department. Often unpaid or super low pay. There's a lot of politics. I'm sure other fields are similar but because derm is small, the effects feel (and probably are amplified).

to add another great story, my friend told me that one of the people who matched to cornell last year? her mom is derm at cornell. connections are everything!

Anyone know interview dates for Irvine?

check the PD-made interview calender <it's not on there, which is why people keep asking about it

do we know if cornell was internal orr all?

Cornell has ~4-5 spots, so I would have expected more invites to have been represented as part of the self-report. Also, the only people who responded to that question were internals

Top tier: UPenn Harvard UCSF NYU Mayo Michigan, Emory, Henry Ford?) and Michigan and Mayo are not top tier. Would add Stanford, Hopkins, and UCLA instead)

would also add UTSW https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/article/157864/practice-management/us-dermatology-residency-program-rankings-based/page/0/1 <<what is the difference between this article and the doximity rankings? Is there more validity to one vs the other? << lol, someone put UCLA in top tier (UCLA isn't even a Department, it's a Division) >> lol UCLA low tier for sure << realistically, probably middle to low, great overall health system but will always have hands tied and no real ability to grow

UCLA is a solid program, strong surgical training, lacks the super complex patients of some more intense programs but it depends on what you are looking for in your training << I don't think anyone's saying it's a bad program, just not a top tier, that's kind of silly

UCLA is the perfect example of a low-to-mid tier program that is nonetheless quite competitive given it's in California. Again, there's often a disconnect between prestige/quality of training and competitiveness. Location, location, location.

No way that Hopkins and UCLA would be top tier over Michigan and Mayo

Mid-tier: OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota, UPMC >> Would probably put MN as low tier? >> Thoughts? Why? >> Minnesota would probably be in same tier as OHSU, Iowa, UPMC. Iowa has great faculty, but I think it does suffer from being in a relatively non-diverse, predominately white, smallish-city in Iowa. Minnesota, OHSU, and UPMC are in more urban environments with at least UPMC and Minnesota having more ethnic / racial diversity, (Portland is super white as well). Also, no one should trust that MDedge nonsense x5

To be fair they tried to make an objective measure. Many of the opinions here leave out some good programs and add in top medical schools that are not top derm programs

MN, Iowa as med-high tier? Would drop UPMC to low tier (just feel like no residents really enjoy it there but maybe that's just me lol)? And Iowa usually as a top 20 program on almost all ranking systems (though you cant always trust these things so who knows). I think its one of those places that suffers in many peoples minds because they have a not-so great med school and its in the mid west, but the derm program is actually extremely well-respected independednt of those facts

1. Penn 2. UCSF 3. NYU 4. Harvard 5. Stanford 6. Northwestern 7. Emory 8. UTSW 9. Hopkins 10. Wash U 11. Mayo 12. Michigan 13. Iowa 14. HF 15. OHSU 16. Colorado 17. Minnesota 18. Utah 19. Cornell 20. Vanderbilt

<-What is this list based on? Its totally inaccurate. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are mid tier programs at best. No Yale? No UW? No Wisconsin? No Miami? No Sinai? Cornell over Columbia? UPMC is definitely mid to top tier. Also, tiers maybe, but I dont understand how you can possibly rank 1 vs. 3 vs. 8 off the cuff << yeah, 1-3 is pretty standard, gets messy with next 5 I was about to post how accurate this list is. Some of the programs listed above are no way in the conversation. You can maybe disagree with Wash U/Cornell to the left tho. I'd agree Vanderbilt too high too

<Yale for sure. x4 . Think that list is pretty accurate for top 20 minus Wash U, Cornell, and Vanderbilt. Would replace with Yale and Columbia. And Cleveland Clinic maybe. <<I question the order of some of these too. Hopkins is not a top 10 (but it is a top 20 probably). I agree that Sinai, miami, Columbia would also be top 20. Vandy should not be on that list and neither should a few others.

<How good are the following programs: UPMC, Hopkins, UCSD, Miami.

I think those are all decent programs (mid-top tier?). I would say that I typically view Hopkins as a mid-tier program (they don't have a lot of diversity in terms of training sites, though Hopkins itself is a great hospital). Miami is typically considered a Top 10 program - but they also are quite disorganized, old facilities, longer hours (Saturday clinics). UPMC takes a lot of MD/PhDs and has great Mohs training, though I never found their program actually attracts people who want to be there. UCSD is solid, somewhat basic-science focused. It's outshined by other programs in California (e.g. Stanford, UCSF, USC) and San Diego has great weather / beaches, though admittedly isn't the most exciting place to live / lacks a lot of arts / culture compared to most bigger cities in the United States.

name me a state with better Mexican food tho

They're all top 10 programs. Mostly depends on what you want to specialize in and where you want to live<<could you elaborate more on these programs and future specialization ? x3

Harvard and Penn are very similar academic programs with strong emphasis on research and inpatient derm. NYU has better clinical volume/training. << NYU has probably the most "different" vibe of those - great clinical training...but a very large program with MANY facult, long hours, and historically not the happiest residents. Penn is great - probably a bit more "supportive" and "coddling" than UCSF or Harvard.

So excited to definitely not get invited lol x4

there's 2 kinds of applicants ... people who are excited for this, and the rest of us lol

top tier med school applicants debating over which top program is best vs the rest of us just trying to match anywhere. they don't know our struggles lol (or top tier medical student who is also in the same struggle since all my classmates have all the interviews) << this is such a myth, at my school we're sharing a lot of them

< PD actually sat me down and outlined how exactly my app is a pile of hot trash.

what why would they do that? trying to discourage you from applying?

I already applied, explaining why I'm getting minimal interviews.

what did they say was the reason?

that I'm hot trash and my general stats are just mediocre and this field is extremely competitive -- I did a research year that i thought was fairly strong but it apparently is insignificant in the scheme of things

did you do aways?

I did 2 aways

and have you been invited by them?

1 yes, the other didnt invite anyone yet as far as I know

well there’s something! Seems like you’ll have at least 3

PD I spoke to was pretty strict about how he didnt really think that would be enough for me

oh damn. I’m sorry :( I really hope you match

I just want them to be nice

I don't know, I've met a plenty of nice people who I'd rather not work with for one reason or another.

Is it because they can be passive aggressive?

YES, niceness and pass-agg seems to come in hand-to-hand for some bizarre reason. Saw plenty of that in FM and Peds

huh ok. I'll change my criterion to "genuinely nice" then. b/c I've met residents who are nice w/o being passive aggressive. Mostly in surgery/derm. oh also neuro << some of the applicant's attitudes and responses here make me think that they're actually OB/Surgery because of their uptight malignancy

I'd prefer surgery's outward malignancy, because at least they are forthright and they will tell you if they don't like you or if you are incompetent.

you know what this is so true, im with you on that passive aggressiveness then! // more attractive than me or smarter than me but not both at the same time// LOL

<< same here because that's me! i think i get along better with people who are really honest and work hard, having a great sense of humor is a cherry on top - meme > I feel like the admissions committee at my school selected against people with a sense of humor; so hard to come across. But lots of people who are honest and hard working

Did your school have grades or P/HP/H for preclinicals? I feel that schools with a more emphasis for grades end up with more serious students. I don't know whether that's associative or causative.

nah we're P/F. maybe we're just boring

< don't get me started on the bullshit that is grading. my school has restricted honors for the top ten percent of the clerkship overall, while other schools have a set number you have to score above. talking to other students on away rotations really opened my eyes to how much each school is different and how little programs care besides seeing the "H" next to the subject.

I went to a school with unrestricted honors. After getting some of my feedbacks, such as ([Name] was one of X students getting honors for this rotation), I realized that in the end, only 15-20% of students ended up getting honors anyway. They set the goalpost (specificed ahead of time) knowing that anyone could meet that standard, but very few people would actually make it. Ultimately, I think this was the right approach because people could still work hard for themselves, regardless of whether or not they met the challenge. << yep this is a great attitude to take to it if the goalposts are properly set! someone's schools had to get 90% on evals, 80% on shelf, unrestricted number. i was like....lol what.

Thoughts on UCSF testing straight P/F grading for clinical clerkships?

In general, I don't think UCSF has an amazing match list compared to Harvard, Penn, and Stanford if we remove the in-home matches. I do think that it will make things harder for the PDs << it might also skew towards the name. P from Harvard? Who even cares, it's Harvard. No H from MidTierStateU? LOL what a pleb. So i dont think UCSF policy will really change anything in the MSPE. << also would reduce the stress level for clinical clerkships. << P/F curriculums may have shifted pressure onto Step 1, could P/F clerkships put more pressure on Step 2?

possibly. Or more pressure on the LORs

Maybe they will move us over to EM's standardized letters of evaluation. I know that some admins in dermatology wanted to do that this year but they were not able to do so. >> 2 cells over in E

I understand that most derm PD's or people reading apps have a sense of individual schools and what the typical grade distributions are << it was made better this year by including graphs in the MSPE

really? I hate those graphs. fucks over half the people in the class << i mean im the OP in the cell to the left. it clearly shows <20 people in my class getting honors directly next to the text for my evaluations so IF, and big IF, the person actually reads why i didn't get honors, they can see that it was only a select few who did. idk, from the underachiever pov, it looks good. << Point taken

i think it'll start depending more on school prestige and LOR maybe like you said, and of course step scores. good school prestige begets good LOR so it's a trickle-down system all the way to the interviews haha. holy shit i forgot about SLOE, imagine that in Derm! hell no, fuck SLOEs. Hate being reduced to a single number/grade as if I were a cow << lol look at the charting outcomes and step score distribution, or like filters that exist already. i hate it too but sometimes its gotta be done

I'd rather be evaluated on the quality of my LORs than another hoop to jump through. Step 1 (and to a lesser extent, Step 2) is enough of an objective measure.

But still, you'd be surprised. In the state of California, Stanford and UCSF had middling average Step I scores compared to places UCLA and UCSD, probably because the students knew that Step I wouldn't matter as much for them in the perspective of other program directors would be happy to have some Stanford/UCSF students as part of the program.

do we have official numbers on these? I don't doubt that it exists, but it'd be nice to know the extent of the disparity of avg Step 1 scores of accepted derm applicants from top vs mid schools

I don't know, I go to a top 3 school. I got a slightly above average score for derm, and my Dean and PD told me that I should be "competitive anywhere" although they did warn me that the places that I'd get interviews may seem random and that I may not get all the interviews that I wanted (and I didn't)

Also at a top 3 with derm average step and don't have many interviews (but others here do). maybe trickles will come

<< prestige man, prestige. its exactly what you said, they'd love to have a person from x program on their resident and potentially staff roster. for us mid-low tier schools, we gotta kick ass on step 1 and etc to have a shadow of your position, potentially with not as good LORs << do we need more hoops to jump through, though? I don't think the answer to leveling the playing field for students not from the top tier schools is to create yet another metric. We have to do so much already, from getting a good Step 1 score, to kicking ass on clerkships, doing research, etc << true man. someone down the sheet suggested having a set number of programs to apply to, like 20 or so, i think that might really be playing with fire and lead to a LOT of people unmatched or SOAPing, both applicants and programs << for sure. we'd need a transition period or something. couldn't ERAS spend a fraction of their $$$ to hire a data scientist to study the optimal number of programs to apply to? << they did that, for derm it was high 30s. let me see if i can find link

https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-residency/filteredresult/apply-smart-data-consider-when-applying-residency/ i think that is what we are discussing - meme

have an internal invite. Has your home program released invites yet? or aways? hang in there

also there may be trickle invites in December << For the skeptical, trickles are real...I got one this week. Hang in there

there was a PGY-1 in the discord chat yesterday night Yesterday at 11:21 PM I was curious and counted w the sheet today since i just rediscovered the sheet, I would have had 10 at this point I matched my #1 Yesterday at 11:21 PM Nice I have 10 right now too so now i feel like absolute garbage :( *** For the record this was a TOP applicant who likely matched at Penn or Harvard. Stay in your lane. You’re doing just fine!!! << thank you, but i am also garbage for other reasons :) - meme

< I really feel like having 10 at this point is an outlier more so than the norm. 10 is a very respectable number to have total in the end of the season, and there are some states that have barely come out yet (e.g. west coast) << yes that is true. according to stats page id say 4-5 is the average number based on respondents <that sounds more realistic, and I bet even that might be a little high if you factor response bias

<I'd been told before that going into thanksgiving with ~4 is a good position, but I am doubting that based on this sheet <don't << ? what do you mean, those of us with <4 are doing worse, or 4 is the good cutoff before thanksgiving because 50% of programs have released their interviews? <sorry, what I meant was that having 4 going into Thanksgiving is a good position and to not doubt that based on the sheet

< almost had a heart attack when i saw those two names lol.

Out of curiousity do you consider those programs comparable. I've been at both departments and feel like they are very different (both good/amazing, but totally different imo)<very different yes, but each amazing in their own respective way. Im near the area of both and would be very happy at either

anyone care to elaborate on how they're different?

The cities are very different, faculty size and resources. While Hopkins is great and better than most places, Penn is in another league with a lot more going on in regards to clinic, research, etc. Very few places can compare to Penn. I personally would also be ecstatic to match at either if I'm lucky enough to get interviews. << Philly & Baltimore tho... <lol<<theyre both great cities that get a lot of bad rep. if you havent actually lived in either of them I wouldnt be so quick to talk. << I'm good never going back to Baltimore thx<good it doesnt want you there anyway

<<agreed that was brutal to make a new row with that nonsense. Heart is still racing lol x2

why harvard?

Ego only. Not interested in covering all the hospitals or cosults honestly

so much truth

people like you ruin dermatology. Don't go into the field if you don't actually want to work x3

You need to chill out. If you want work, why don't you go into internal med or surgery. Or try construction. People like the good lifestyle in derm and there's nothing wrong with that.

x2 lots of us have great work ethics but also realize where it's necessary vs not <<< this is why derm gets a bad rep

<< Any program that makes me a dermatologist x6

Upenn!! The oldest program in the nation, huge department under one umbrella (unlike Harvard), Philly is on the affordable side of NE cities and theres a reason its #1 on doximity, because residents love it there!

< Penn resident spotted< nah but I did an away :)

lol an "away" << ?? i know someone that did an away at UPenn.

LOL sure. "away" haha << do you really think that residens have the time or the interest to post here? Lol you are way over your heads

NYU would be a dream. Cant beat NYC, diverse population and exposure to private derm in the most competitive market << I hope you don't match with that kind of thought << OP- What kind of thought? Thankfully you dont decide my future lol

< that's why Columbia's my dream. :)

<Really excited about the Columbia interview! Any info about this program in terms of resident happiness, perception of the program, etc.?

congrats! how many interviews does Harvard usually give out?

~30 << not true

more? less?

def more. they have 8ish spots. << wahhhhh I wanted this one!!!

probably closer to 60 invitations

seems like a lot. their yield is probably high <lol no WAY is it 60

It's probably the same as most other programs, ~40. But if you look at the match list from last year, for example, not a single person on that list wasn't connected in some strong way. So likely applicants are ranked before interviews and it doesn't change much after interviews.

Fake news. Not everyone last year was connected to the program

Who wasn't? x2

Even the non-Harvard rotators had gone to Harvard for undergrad << This.

This also applies to Penn. x2 << Basically applies to every top program in the country

Based on my extensive sleuthing, it 100% applies to Harvard, Penn, and Yale. As in you're SOL if you don't have a strong connection of some kind. To a much lesser degree, it applies to Stanford and UCSF

Definitely less with UCSF since they don't have an undergraduate college :)

but you have to have CA ties

Stanford and UCSF to a much lesser degree yes, but CA ties are almost required

disagree no california ties and got UCSF

aren't you a special cookie? We're talking about people who matched, not interview invites you snowflake

I was going to say what this person to the left said, but not as rudely. Yes I'm talking about people who MATCH, not get invited for an interview.

lol got it. thanks for the non-rudeness person #2 i get what ur saying<<what exactly do strong connections mean for these top programs? Like regional, rotating there etc?

reposting from edit history:

congrats superstars!!! are any of you external without any connection/away?

myself x5

that's so awesome, congrats friend!

thank you amigo/a!

Are you guys from other top schools though or have 260+ Step scores? There must be some method to this madness, it can feel so random sometimes x2

I think if it were just 260+ they would still have a lot of work to do to pick candidates. Doubt a place like HMS has to go just based off stats to pick their bunch.

Not true, there's only around 40 applicants with step 1 scores > 260 and they likely interview around 40 candidates" >> as an interviewee, I can tell you the assumptions above are not true x4

what assumption? x2<<needing 260+ step scores.

<hey guys is harvard a good program; first time hearing about it

I think they’re relatively new, I wouldn’t rank personally

yeah my PD asked if its a community program when I mentioned it

My PD didn't recognize the name, is it DO? << I thought it was in the Caribbean, I didn't apply for that reason.

oh SHIT it was spelled with an H in the front; been calling it ARVARD

either way, I think the program is low on brand recognition. who would go there?

yeah the interview date conflicted with a race in my city (which I organized, for just myself) so I declined it

yeah probably not worth the money of flights and hotels, tbh. good call. <I've seen ads for this school inbetween my youtube vids I think

:'D >> Heard Harvard is on probation and might not get accredited next year :/ Pretty poor reputation

LOLOL

Rotated at Harvard. They have overall good breadth of training with MGH, Brigham, BIDMC, few other sites. Lots of research opportunities and seems supported by the department. I found the resident surgical skills, dermatoscopy skills, and skin cancer screening skills were subpar at least in comparison to my home program. The department is great and has lots of leaders in derm - but it has a bit of of a very "old-school" feel with lots of white-haired, Caucasian males at the top of the leadership chain. It definitely has an old-school, East Coast medicine feel. This was sort of a turn off for me. Some of the faculty are primarily research clinicians who work 1/2 day a week in cinic - some of these attendings have really not maintained good clinical skills / not particularly interested in clinical medicine and it clearly showed. The number of faculty is huge - which means many residents don't get a lot of exposure to working 1:1 with a smaller group of faculty (there a few expections - for instance, Kroshinky who runs the inpatient service and is just overall the best person ever). Overall, my take home from my experience there was that Harvard has good training and great research opportunities, but that "prestigious" programs aren't necessarily everyone's preference / despite Harvard's own self-perception as "the holy grail of medicine", you can get similar high-quality of training at other less prestigious institutions.

did you get an interview?

no

oh no! you seem really nice, I'm sorry. thanks for the write up! x 2

< Is Kroshinsky nice? I've heard not as positive comments about her, but I much prefer to believe she's as nice as some people have said. Did you interact with Mostaghimi or Chen while you were there? I thought they are both big on inpatient? Were they nice? << Kroshinsky is a superstar x3

are you 3 internals?

not me. Did a research year with her

oh so you're matching Harvard? ;)

<-- Korshinsky is nice. So is Mostaghimi. I didn't work with Chen.

thank you!

Dr Chen is seriously the nicest person on the planet, encourages even med student autonomy in clinic/inpatient

Have heard conflicting things about Mostaghimi though. Heard he can be hard to get along with from an external rotator there

Are you serious?? Hard to get along with in what way? He seems like he'd be so nice and funny! << seemed judgmental and not very friendly << maybe he just has RBF (resting bitch face lol)?? I really don't want to believe he's not as nice as seems :(

< did your friend who was a rotator recieve an interview? << yup

<< white-haired white dude leadership is a thing at a lot of derm programs.... suprised it's still a thing I thought we were in more modern times

< that would be suprising. do you go to a low tier school? Mid-tier

that was a stupid question on my end. what even is high/mid/low tier? like top 10/40/100 or something? but to harken back to your situation, the only things I can think of that could be adversely affecting you other than being from a "low" tier school would be not taking a research year / limited research or your geographical area. <I agree with you. I can't really think of much else besides geography and below average research. I have read all but one of my letters and they were strong. I really don't know what to do at this point.

I'm sorry, friend. I'm assuming it is then the combination of geography and below avg. research. But I'm also SURE you're going to get interviews. Just hang in there! Nothing else you can do now, and with a 260 you clearly worked hard already.

Yes minus the 260 :D

Glad to have you on my team << 260+ can give you that same "top tier" school curse where some programs may think you're out of their league. Hang in there, we're with you

im <260 but PhD (non-research track) and it doesn't look good. low tier school, did good aways, got LoR, SILENCE, it's crazy that this is happening.

0 interviews at all? <aside from internal no << did you get interviews from your aways?<--any updates for you?

top tier med school, 260+ Step 1, 15 publications, great LORs, 0 interview invitations. I'm devastated

Yooooo that SUCKS. Are there a lot of applicants from your school with your stats or better?

yes. double digit applicants, all similar .

damn I'm at a double digit school with way worse stats...now I know why I'm not getting invites

dang OP of this cell, man I feel for you. That is rough, but there is no way you do not match and get a lump sum of interviews at some point.

TBH, OP, if you're at a Harvard/Yale/Stanford etc. school, chances are you're going to match your home program. You're fine.

As someone from a top school with a top home program, not true. I wish that I could match into my program, but the schools want a residency class filled with the best folks from other great institutions to add influx of new idea, skills, and connections to the class. This is true ESPECIALLY if there are a ton of us.

im really starting to realize how big a factor the # of people applying from my school is

# of people applying is a factor but applicants from top schools are typically safer with fewer invites at top programs compared to non-top school candiates with mid/low tier interviews. Top programs want applicants from top schools so you're competing with a small pool of applicants for all the spots at Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Penn/UCSF etc.

This . If you look at the people in the Y/H/S/P etc. schools, 80% of residents are from that program, 15% from another Y/H/S/P etc., and MAYBE 1-2 a year from a more "random" school—and that person 100% either had a 100th percentile Step 1 score and/or connections. Also, if you look at their match lists from the past couple years, not a SINGLE one of those programs had an unmatched applicant. So not sure why you're "devastated" when you have a 100% chance of matching—and likely at your home or another top program (unless your personality sucks).

Swap out Yale for NYU, and you have the proper list of top programs.

I seriously dont know how this process works. thats insane . <<Not OP (have way lower stats than that lol), but as someone who goes to a top 5 place I can say with fact that there is not a 100% chance. I do not know how all top programs work, but the fact is even though we have more residents than the average program, the number of applicants from our school is greater than th enumber of spots. On top of that, our school does not rank its own first (but yes 1/2 the porgram tends to be our own/research/rotators). It is a top programs and it wants the best from the country. If you look at our match list it looks AMAZING, but it never mentions the people who do not match. I know for the last 3 years, there was 1 or more unmatched derm. We're all in this shit together

<--- I review applications. While there are some programs that highly value Step 1 score -- I think applicants overestimate how much most programs care about these things. I don't think there are any functional differences betweeen applications with a 240 versus 260 on Step 1. Again, the more important differentiators are clinical grades, letters of recommendation, research, and personal statement (probably in that order). << Agreed, and same is true for whether Top/Mid med school

< It's really heartening to know that, thank you! Do you know if most programs feel the same way you and the program you're at does about scores? And what programs really do care a lot about scores?

< does anyone know if school look at clinical grades out of 6 or 7 rotations? (aka including neurology or not?)

Hi! Penn's website says by the first week of december, which usually means the last week of november or first week of december. And I think hopkins is coming out this week! << Penn is likely next week, by the 25th

yea Penn's website says by 11/25 I believe<<any source on hopkins coming out this week?

<<people have been saying Hopkins for the last 2 weeks lol

Don't say Penn, Don't say Penn :( << The Green Box of Doooooom

That was mean

what a troll, I'm getting off this spreadsheet lol

LOLOL sorry

I've done an away at Penn and the residents seem happy. Lots of supporting staff and big names. << any inside info about when invites will be sent? No clue - I know some attendings have looked through applicantions so hopefully soon! << thanks!

thank you for your response! that sounds awesome! did you feel like the residents were nice / friends with each other? and I know UPenn has a number of prominent faculty - did they seem nice / approachable / like they enjoy teaching (esp rosenbach)? sorry for all the questions!!

not the OP but rosenbach is awesome

thank you!! he does seem like he's an all around awesome teacher/mentor/person - hope im half as good as an attending :') --> away rotater again: rosenbach is amazing. super nice and teaches alot. Everyone is approachable, some more than others. Overall, I've had a great expereince this month and have learned alot from the faculty here. Tons of research opportunity as well. Residents are super nice! They seem to get along well with each other

< thank you so much! really appreciate your taking the time to share, and i'm so glad you had such a positive experience!