NYU Grossman School Of Medicine-NY

Yeah prolly wouldn't say it's a great list just because they're coming from top schools, though I'm sure they were all great applicants and good fits for NYU. I suppose the fact that people make that assumption though is why home program prestige seems to matter.<<yea school rank 100% percent matters in derm sadly. thats why i tell all premeds that wanna do compeittive specialties to go to the higher ranked school

Congrats NYU! x2

Doesn’t matter. All about your instagram presence at that point< HAHA

100% true

depends on how many giveaways/month

This may be dumb to say but maybe Stanford since the population may be most like private?

<<Dude, NYU for sure

NYU wasn't one of the OP's posted programs

<Harvard for baller academic/research connections and opportunities, lots of med derm, less clinically heavy; NYU tons of clinics/Bellevue which you'll get baller, academics also good, UCSF work hard af but has a bit of everything and is great; Stanford is like the most supportive of the top 5 and will likely have the most good-feeling experience ... idk I'm a PGY1 that interviewed some of these so I don't actually know anything <<thanks for your insight! what do you mean harvard is less clinically heavy? like more inpatient experience? <<there's less resident clinic autonomy, you work a lot with attendings in specialty clinic and it's less ownership of your own patients, but it's like that anyways at the top academic programs as opposed to a small community program, just heard it's more accentuated at Harvard<<interesting, so are residents mostly just presenting patients and writing notes rather than coming up with management plans? <i imagine yes since you're seeing super complex patients at a tertiary care center<dang, fair enough. thank you! << "just present and write notes instead of coming up with management plans"? Is that an actual, serious comment? You think the residents just present the patient then stand there looking blankly at the attending waiting for them to just hand them a treatment plan? If you see complex patients, you learn how to come up with complex plans

< thanks for the input! What about penn?

PGY1. Loved Penn program (didn't match there but had it ranked #1). Amazing faculty, good autonomy, everyone seemed happy. Great exposure to procedures as well (which I felt was a weakness at Harvard)

Stanford - happy residents, assume great clinical experience (although no one seems to emphasize this as much about Stanford); UCSF - one of best if not best clinical experience in the country for complex derm, work you very hard though. Others I don't know as well. Go with your gut and where you felt like the personalities of the residents were most similar to yours.

Penn is the best all-round plus the procedural skill > Harvard. Stanford would be my #2 for the supportive vibe and innovation.

UCSF and Penn are definitly the two best/most well-rounded programs in the country. All the other "top" programs have significnt weaknesses (i.e stanford and harvard have weak derm surg, etc). NYU residents seem to work the hardest and seemed to me to be the least happy.

Here's an easy thing to do: You're at a NYC school? If you're at Einstein, do research at Einstein and you'll match there, almost gaurenteed - look at thier past matches. If you're at NYU, do research at NYU. If you're at Columbia, do research there, etc. etc. You're most likely to match your home program anyways, and if you're at a NYC school it's most likely a good school so just solidify your connections there. Good luck!

Harvard and Penn are very similar academic programs with strong emphasis on research and inpatient derm. NYU has better clinical volume/training. << NYU has probably the most "different" vibe of those - great clinical training...but a very large program with MANY facult, long hours, and historically not the happiest residents. Penn is great - probably a bit more "supportive" and "coddling" than UCSF or Harvard.

NYU > Columbia

No, NYU >>> Columbia

NYU is a top 5 program

<Seriously. Just based off program its NYU all the way, not even really a question. But, if you personally felt you fit better at Columbia then great, thats what the interview process is all about, pick Columbia!

Yeah I feel like we would see the same people at a lot of the top programs. It feels so strange to be invited to Harvard but not Penn - does anyone else feel the same?<invites from Harvard, UCSF, NYU...but not penn. I do not understand

Minus UCSF, same. So weird! I wonder why, especially in your case with 3 of the other top 5!<<im not sure tbh. I expected Penn more than UCSF considering i have no ties to the west coast. My only rationale is that my step isnt the absolute highest for these top places, and idk if penn considers step score more than some of the other top programs.

You know what, I too have a sneaking suspiscion Penn values high step scores more than any of the other top 5. I'm around a 255 so maybe they really want that 260+? I really wanted this one :(<<yea im in the low 250 range as well. oh well cant win em all.

True. And sounds like it's Penn's loss in your case :)<<best of luck to you in your interviews kind stranger, and congrats on your well deserved merits!

haha thank you!! :') you too!!

I was fortuante to top 5 IVs with step >260 soI think they just have a really good applicant pool and we missed out because they look for different things?

Congrats on the impressive score and interviews!! Yeah, could be! I think the person who commented in 14D explains well some one the inherent and unavoidable randomness in the process. <- do you guys remember what your responses to the penn supplmemt was at the beginning of the cycle? my step scores weren't as high as yours and i got penn but my response was interest in epidemiology

Congrats!! And that's strange about the tracks, do you think that mattered? And I just selected the 3 year track and combined clinical and research training. Maybe Dr. Gefland was the person who reviewed your app lol <- step 1 was mid 240s

i doubt a 250ish step 1 score would be the disqualifying factor in an otherwise outstanding candidate?

No it's not that it's disqualifying, it's that there's SO MANY qualified applicants with a 250ish step score, you just can't interview them all. <i guess my point is i feel like they would look at some other aspect to try to differentiate applicants rather than just a few points on a standardized test (at least that's the hope lol)

Yes one'd hope lol

On the bright side, I appreciated that the subject started with, “unable to offer interview” x6

There is no bright side. Nothing is bright anymore.

lol, I didn't get an invitation or a rejection so i don't know if I have sheer joy or more disappointment headed my way. ::shrug::

<<Such a gunner move "hurr just don't go into derm, another spot for me". TBH you can be a chiropractor and open up a cosmetics program.

There are peds trained people who I have seen now have cosmetic only practices and surgeons (not plastics) who also have cosmetics only practices.

I am all for whatever it takes to get the cosmetics people out of our field <I don't want to do cosmetics, but I rather someone in derm do it who actually trains some in this stuff rather than FM/IM/PEDS/Neurology (went to a neuro clinic that started doing cosmetic botox as well as migraine botox) etc.

Upenn!! The oldest program in the nation, huge department under one umbrella (unlike Harvard), Philly is on the affordable side of NE cities and theres a reason its #1 on doximity, because residents love it there!

< Penn resident spotted< nah but I did an away :)

lol an "away" << ?? i know someone that did an away at UPenn.

LOL sure. "away" haha << do you really think that residens have the time or the interest to post here? Lol you are way over your heads

NYU would be a dream. Cant beat NYC, diverse population and exposure to private derm in the most competitive market << I hope you don't match with that kind of thought << OP- What kind of thought? Thankfully you dont decide my future lol

< that's why Columbia's my dream. :)

<Really excited about the Columbia interview! Any info about this program in terms of resident happiness, perception of the program, etc.?

NYU is the top creme de la creme program.

i would cream myself to match any of the top 5 x2 <My mentors have mentioned slightly different lists to me that they consider the top programs (though 3-4 of those always make the list), so it is all subjective. <<< Thanks for the input, good to know that they may not be as static as they seem

< would love to hear your mentors lists

Tufts, Harvard, BU, UCLA, UCSF

LOL <why are 3/5 in Boston? That just doesn't sound right to me.

That sounds like a bad idea for multiple reasons. You're there to impress them, not make them feel sorry/pity/worried for you. (also, they may start to wonder, "wait, we gave him/her an interview, but why did ranks 5-15 pass him/her over?). Also, you're likely to be a student from Stanford/NYU/Harvard, and at 3 interviews, I'd get nervous and reach out to your medical school mentor and start making calls. I'm from one of those schools, and I definitely know a number of people who matched at their #3 and below.

it’s not pity it’s clear communication. Who ever is saying not to communicate that is wrong.

i have a feeling that you're trying to sabotage this person's chances.

yeah you should never mention that you have a low # of interviews to programs, wtf at whoever said that

Seriously, what could they possibly say? "Hey, Stanford, I only have interviews from two other top schools (I won't say which ones because that would be rude and I want to keep the discussion to US), so I'm in danger of not matching. Would you please rank me to match so I don't have to repeat this process?" Yeah, right.

You obviously wouldn’t say it like that. But I would work in a way to say that your application has a lot of research publication and I only interested in training at an academic center and there are few programs which would satisfy my ultimate career goals and truly align with my passion for x,y,z including (insert Stanford/NYU/whatever) if youre bold you could even say something like “I only have 3 interviews, granted they are at top academic programs and I’m aware that statistically speaking this decreases my chances of matching. That being said dermatology is my passion and if i didnt match i would continue to pursue my research interests and reapply”. God, be creative people. <-- the second part sounds transparently terrible to be honest. the first part is generic (all 2 applicants say something like that when asked "why program X") and doesn't even let on that you only have 3 interviews

OP is probably a student at Harvard, NYU or Stanford so he/she will match somewhere x2

as a student in one of these schools I think you'd be surprised at how many people don't match. I think its partially due to hubris

Gotta get someone reliable and known to make calls ASAP to realistic match spots (mid and lower teir, geographically compatible with application)

The process is crazy. I have top 10 interviews and only 10 total, but other people from my school have more and I know my scores are higher. I know there are multiple favors going in to selecting for interviews but I kind of check off a lot of the other boxes also. I almost think some programs see 270 and think I won’t go there or that I’m maybe not normal.

in terms of what? clinical vs research vs ... they are very different programs

In terms of whatever matters to you.

Clinically: UCSF, Penn>Harvard>Stanford>NYU

< really? I feel like clinically NYU would be the strongest by far because you're spending 2/3 of your entire residency at the VA+county/public hospital = lots of autonomy. << LOL that person has no idea what they're talking about. Clinically, it's UCSF > NYU > Harvard > Stanford > Penn. Overall reputation is Harvard > Stanford > Penn > UCSF > NYU << lol at these absurd rankings, true delusion

I've heard it's UCSF > Harvard > Stanford > NYU > Penn

Its almost as if the top 5 is interchangable and it really comes down to personal preferences and biases

haha so true x3

Look at last year’s rank sheet. Penn was most popular #1 rank then Stanford out of the top 5.

because everyone definitely writes their ranking and is definitely honest about it too

lol'ed at that gullible person

< there is literally no benefit to faking what you are ranking 1 because that only would dissuade people from also listing that one, which ends up in them possibly ranking where you actually want to go as 1. Also, it's anonymous. It's not each person's specific rank, but a tally of how many people are rankin each program a certain number on their list so there is very little benefit to lying. There is usually a 1/5 yield, so it's actually a good amount of people of the interviewees.

< https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16WyBDd4BhLhqR5F5BWMLRAKtq_Na3d9DHyokLtUg0rA/edit#gid=596104293

I think there's a lot of people who state something with authority when either they don't really know themselves or when they're just being malicious and stating false stuff, but from my own limited personal understanding, these programs are the ones that repeatedly -- year after year -- are cited as "malignant." But I think people are using a broad definition of malignant and the reasons for being listed as "malignant" are different for each program -- NYU has been stated to have unhappy residents who do a lot of scut (as can be said about Columbia) with not the nicest attendings; Pitt has been stated to have somewhat uncaring attendings; USC is broadly a scandal-ridden school so not particularly dermatology department-related; Michigan has supposedly improved; UMiami they just work you hard eg, 7:00 am daily lectures (as can be said about UCSF). So I think malignant in derm programs is not like general surgery malignant, I think just one or more of hard working/unhappy residents/not very nice or caring attendings.

<<well said. I a lot of the "malignant" rep just means your are working a little harder in some way relative to some other programs. However, some of these top programs are top programs because they work you a little harder...forcing you to learn a little more. -- Agreed --> I would disagree slightly. Sometimes "working harder" doesn't mean learning more. It just means working harder. x3

<lol someone said lower that malignant means having morning lectures. Very broad range of definitions here

I think people have the expectation that derm residency should be a 9-5 cush job...? << I don't think that person was conflating 7 AM lectures with malignancy, I think it was a separate question

7 am lecture is a special type of torture but not malignant, agree.

idk I equate malignant with people (attendings, coresidents, PD, chair, etc) being actively mean and malicious. Like not caring about the residents or caring that they are unhappy. Long hours, early lecture = sucks but not necessarily malignant if people know about it in advance and sign up for it.

good question; i would not place too much emphasis on rankings as they are liable to change and depend on a lot of factors that dont directly impact residents imo

Both are amazing places to train, but Harvard has the edge on research, while NYU has the edge on clinical training. Both of them are great at both things, of course, which is why they're both top programs. Cant go wrong with either, just depends which aspect you want a little more emphasis on.<any thoughts on which program is more amenable to someone who wants to do Mohs in the future?

definitely NOT NYU..

Dude, Harvard is Harvard. Enough said :)

y’all can have Harvard. Unless you have strictly academic goals I wouldn’t say it’s all that.

Idk I feel like the Harvard name is powerful, even if you want to go private. Not sure the average patient on the west coast has heard of NYU, but Harvard is instant cache anywhere <No arguments on the Harvard name, and maybe its my east coast bias showing, but I can't believe west coast people would not have heard of NYU ... <Agreed. NYU is the most applied to private university in the country... pretty sure name recognition/brand awareness is not an issue for them. Plus, anecdotally, as someone from the west coast, everyone I know has heard of the school and generally holds it in high regard.

heard bad things about Pitt program. Lots of driving in between sites, faculty don't really care, etc

Heard really bad things about UTSW

I forgot about UTSW!!! Yes apparently they have weekly graded quizzes and also some of the faculty are super mean?? Can someone confirm?? x2

Faculty all really nice. True about weekly quizzes which may not be for eveyone but they keep you on track and ensure you are very well trained.

<< there's a reason why UTSW has a reputation of producing the strongest clinically trained dermatologists. The residents seemed really happy there. Doesn't seem like there's much scut work. x2