NYU Grossman School Of Medicine-NY

Top tier: UPenn Harvard UCSF NYU Mayo Michigan, Emory, Henry Ford?) and Michigan and Mayo are not top tier. Would add Stanford, Hopkins, and UCLA instead)

would also add UTSW https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/article/157864/practice-management/us-dermatology-residency-program-rankings-based/page/0/1 <<what is the difference between this article and the doximity rankings? Is there more validity to one vs the other? << lol, someone put UCLA in top tier (UCLA isn't even a Department, it's a Division) >> lol UCLA low tier for sure << realistically, probably middle to low, great overall health system but will always have hands tied and no real ability to grow

UCLA is a solid program, strong surgical training, lacks the super complex patients of some more intense programs but it depends on what you are looking for in your training << I don't think anyone's saying it's a bad program, just not a top tier, that's kind of silly

UCLA is the perfect example of a low-to-mid tier program that is nonetheless quite competitive given it's in California. Again, there's often a disconnect between prestige/quality of training and competitiveness. Location, location, location.

No way that Hopkins and UCLA would be top tier over Michigan and Mayo

Mid-tier: OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota, UPMC >> Would probably put MN as low tier? >> Thoughts? Why? >> Minnesota would probably be in same tier as OHSU, Iowa, UPMC. Iowa has great faculty, but I think it does suffer from being in a relatively non-diverse, predominately white, smallish-city in Iowa. Minnesota, OHSU, and UPMC are in more urban environments with at least UPMC and Minnesota having more ethnic / racial diversity, (Portland is super white as well). Also, no one should trust that MDedge nonsense x5

To be fair they tried to make an objective measure. Many of the opinions here leave out some good programs and add in top medical schools that are not top derm programs

MN, Iowa as med-high tier? Would drop UPMC to low tier (just feel like no residents really enjoy it there but maybe that's just me lol)? And Iowa usually as a top 20 program on almost all ranking systems (though you cant always trust these things so who knows). I think its one of those places that suffers in many peoples minds because they have a not-so great med school and its in the mid west, but the derm program is actually extremely well-respected independednt of those facts

1. Penn 2. UCSF 3. NYU 4. Harvard 5. Stanford 6. Northwestern 7. Emory 8. UTSW 9. Hopkins 10. Wash U 11. Mayo 12. Michigan 13. Iowa 14. HF 15. OHSU 16. Colorado 17. Minnesota 18. Utah 19. Cornell 20. Vanderbilt

<-What is this list based on? Its totally inaccurate. Hopkins and Vanderbilt are mid tier programs at best. No Yale? No UW? No Wisconsin? No Miami? No Sinai? Cornell over Columbia? UPMC is definitely mid to top tier. Also, tiers maybe, but I dont understand how you can possibly rank 1 vs. 3 vs. 8 off the cuff << yeah, 1-3 is pretty standard, gets messy with next 5 I was about to post how accurate this list is. Some of the programs listed above are no way in the conversation. You can maybe disagree with Wash U/Cornell to the left tho. I'd agree Vanderbilt too high too

<Yale for sure. x4 . Think that list is pretty accurate for top 20 minus Wash U, Cornell, and Vanderbilt. Would replace with Yale and Columbia. And Cleveland Clinic maybe. <<I question the order of some of these too. Hopkins is not a top 10 (but it is a top 20 probably). I agree that Sinai, miami, Columbia would also be top 20. Vandy should not be on that list and neither should a few others.

<How good are the following programs: UPMC, Hopkins, UCSD, Miami.

I think those are all decent programs (mid-top tier?). I would say that I typically view Hopkins as a mid-tier program (they don't have a lot of diversity in terms of training sites, though Hopkins itself is a great hospital). Miami is typically considered a Top 10 program - but they also are quite disorganized, old facilities, longer hours (Saturday clinics). UPMC takes a lot of MD/PhDs and has great Mohs training, though I never found their program actually attracts people who want to be there. UCSD is solid, somewhat basic-science focused. It's outshined by other programs in California (e.g. Stanford, UCSF, USC) and San Diego has great weather / beaches, though admittedly isn't the most exciting place to live / lacks a lot of arts / culture compared to most bigger cities in the United States.

name me a state with better Mexican food tho

They're all top 10 programs. Mostly depends on what you want to specialize in and where you want to live<<could you elaborate more on these programs and future specialization ? x3

Harvard and Penn are very similar academic programs with strong emphasis on research and inpatient derm. NYU has better clinical volume/training. << NYU has probably the most "different" vibe of those - great clinical training...but a very large program with MANY facult, long hours, and historically not the happiest residents. Penn is great - probably a bit more "supportive" and "coddling" than UCSF or Harvard.

trading is ILLEGAL and you should be reported

lol what where did you get that from? oh wait you're joking nvm carry on

cancel it :D x3.lol jk hope you find someone to help

How are you doing, Meme? Did this week bring you any good news? << not at all! still sitting on 1 interview since late october. << Sorry man, thanks for your positive attitude through it all. << its all good, i think working out and memes really help, hope your application cycle is going well!

Krispy kreme and video games.... But also got rejected for med school and undergrad, hurts less every time

Oof, the last time I got an interview at Harvard was for the college. And rejected at that too. Still stings, even after a decade. I wish my head could let things go. headspace.com helps a lot

<< lmao its me again from the bottom cells, i work out 6 days a week now, and post a ton of memes here. also teaching myselff some basic life skills so that i doont die in intern year

< For harvard just look at the Boston temp and all of the different locations you would have to bounce between. << i did a rotation in NYC and this applies to the NYC schools as well. ~1 hour times between their satellites.

and in san fran, $4000 gets you a studio apartment! lol

<- I think you have to tell yourself (and to some extent believe) that everything happens for a reason. You didn't get interview at the programs you wanted, but honestly maybe you wouldn't have been happy there to begin with. So really it's just saving you time/energy/money wasted. At least that's what I tell myself

yea i've been trying to do this too

<I know at my program they rate if they think applicants will rank the program highly and a lot of thatt is based on geography. This counts just as much as other big categories like "research" or "scores" << what if we're an East coast and did an away at a West coast? and also have a LOR from that west coast school? >>Midwest and did one east/one west and it ain't doing much for me << okay so it's not just me. this is really interesting+frustrating.> not sure how much more fucking obviously willing to go wherever we can be .

there is no logic...we are some of the best medical student and I'm sure most of us are extremely hard working, but we are now in a position of weakness with no power at all #jaded

medical school applications all over again haha <tbh I never felt like that then. I felt I would get in somewhere versus now I truly am worried about not matching << you better than me, i was kinda scared i wouldn't get into a med school. but yes, i am even more scared about match, because it's one and done.

<no midwest love and im from NE >> Barely any Midwest love from the Midwest lolol

east coast, away rotation in nyc. ignored at NYU, columbia. <same. and downstate potentially lol

yea east coast ignored by east coast here << cell OP here, also forgot to mention, rejected at SIU and all midwest programs basically so far. geography is not a factor for me at all because im getting nothing

did you get a letter from your NYC away rotation? << yes, got a LOR from faculty member, not sure of quality but i had to use it. and one of the residents said he really hopes to see me back for an interview (means nothing but it was nice to hear)

yeah it's frustating.

what are these programs even looking for at this point? i check all the boxes and yet still no love. sigh. << honestly, it's a great question. i dont think anyone knows and the people with double digit interviews have a legitimate reason to not care haha, they deserve it. but yeah i think it's just brutal out there because we're all just that good.

i have double digit interviews and can 100% say that there are so many people on here who are equally/if not more deserving and it's not far. I know people identical to me on paper with 1 or 2 and the whole system is entirely fucked. That being said, still hate this waiting game and feel for everyone on here. << this is the way to properly say that you have a lot of interviews. people with no tact, please take note! :)

not just tactful but also true. I also have double digits and think the system is truly just randomness and maybe only peripherally based on merit

< Me to an audience of PDs: https://youtu.be/4Irs_jeRInU?t=99 << lmao i had no idea this existed x2

why harvard?

Ego only. Not interested in covering all the hospitals or cosults honestly

so much truth

people like you ruin dermatology. Don't go into the field if you don't actually want to work x3

You need to chill out. If you want work, why don't you go into internal med or surgery. Or try construction. People like the good lifestyle in derm and there's nothing wrong with that.

x2 lots of us have great work ethics but also realize where it's necessary vs not <<< this is why derm gets a bad rep

<< Any program that makes me a dermatologist x6

Upenn!! The oldest program in the nation, huge department under one umbrella (unlike Harvard), Philly is on the affordable side of NE cities and theres a reason its #1 on doximity, because residents love it there!

< Penn resident spotted< nah but I did an away :)

lol an "away" << ?? i know someone that did an away at UPenn.

LOL sure. "away" haha << do you really think that residens have the time or the interest to post here? Lol you are way over your heads

NYU would be a dream. Cant beat NYC, diverse population and exposure to private derm in the most competitive market << I hope you don't match with that kind of thought << OP- What kind of thought? Thankfully you dont decide my future lol

< that's why Columbia's my dream. :)

<Really excited about the Columbia interview! Any info about this program in terms of resident happiness, perception of the program, etc.?

go back to the thalamus invite and click on your date, and click edit survey answer

thanks!

where are the attached bios? I didn't see any attachments on the thalamus app<theyre in the initial interview invite email we got as an attachment

so excited to meet y'all<< likewise!! which day/session are you interviewing on?

9th PM! I hope I get to see a lot of repeat faces on the interview trail :D << look forward to meeting you at that session! :)

Check out the MRSP program at the NIH

Talk to upper classmen or people who matched in past few years to see if you can get linked with their mentors. Otherwise email people who publish in the location you want to do research with. It might take 50 emails to find the person x2

Here's an easy thing to do: You're at a NYC school? If you're at Einstein, do research at Einstein and you'll match there, almost gaurenteed - look at thier past matches. If you're at NYU, do research at NYU. If you're at Columbia, do research there, etc. etc. You're most likely to match your home program anyways, and if you're at a NYC school it's most likely a good school so just solidify your connections there. Good luck!

< that would be suprising. do you go to a low tier school? Mid-tier

that was a stupid question on my end. what even is high/mid/low tier? like top 10/40/100 or something? but to harken back to your situation, the only things I can think of that could be adversely affecting you other than being from a "low" tier school would be not taking a research year / limited research or your geographical area. <I agree with you. I can't really think of much else besides geography and below average research. I have read all but one of my letters and they were strong. I really don't know what to do at this point.

I'm sorry, friend. I'm assuming it is then the combination of geography and below avg. research. But I'm also SURE you're going to get interviews. Just hang in there! Nothing else you can do now, and with a 260 you clearly worked hard already.

Yes minus the 260 :D

Glad to have you on my team << 260+ can give you that same "top tier" school curse where some programs may think you're out of their league. Hang in there, we're with you

im <260 but PhD (non-research track) and it doesn't look good. low tier school, did good aways, got LoR, SILENCE, it's crazy that this is happening.

0 interviews at all? <aside from internal no << did you get interviews from your aways?<--any updates for you?

top tier med school, 260+ Step 1, 15 publications, great LORs, 0 interview invitations. I'm devastated

Yooooo that SUCKS. Are there a lot of applicants from your school with your stats or better?

yes. double digit applicants, all similar .

damn I'm at a double digit school with way worse stats...now I know why I'm not getting invites

dang OP of this cell, man I feel for you. That is rough, but there is no way you do not match and get a lump sum of interviews at some point.

TBH, OP, if you're at a Harvard/Yale/Stanford etc. school, chances are you're going to match your home program. You're fine.

As someone from a top school with a top home program, not true. I wish that I could match into my program, but the schools want a residency class filled with the best folks from other great institutions to add influx of new idea, skills, and connections to the class. This is true ESPECIALLY if there are a ton of us.

im really starting to realize how big a factor the # of people applying from my school is

# of people applying is a factor but applicants from top schools are typically safer with fewer invites at top programs compared to non-top school candiates with mid/low tier interviews. Top programs want applicants from top schools so you're competing with a small pool of applicants for all the spots at Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Penn/UCSF etc.

This . If you look at the people in the Y/H/S/P etc. schools, 80% of residents are from that program, 15% from another Y/H/S/P etc., and MAYBE 1-2 a year from a more "random" school—and that person 100% either had a 100th percentile Step 1 score and/or connections. Also, if you look at their match lists from the past couple years, not a SINGLE one of those programs had an unmatched applicant. So not sure why you're "devastated" when you have a 100% chance of matching—and likely at your home or another top program (unless your personality sucks).

Swap out Yale for NYU, and you have the proper list of top programs.

I seriously dont know how this process works. thats insane . <<Not OP (have way lower stats than that lol), but as someone who goes to a top 5 place I can say with fact that there is not a 100% chance. I do not know how all top programs work, but the fact is even though we have more residents than the average program, the number of applicants from our school is greater than th enumber of spots. On top of that, our school does not rank its own first (but yes 1/2 the porgram tends to be our own/research/rotators). It is a top programs and it wants the best from the country. If you look at our match list it looks AMAZING, but it never mentions the people who do not match. I know for the last 3 years, there was 1 or more unmatched derm. We're all in this shit together

<--- I review applications. While there are some programs that highly value Step 1 score -- I think applicants overestimate how much most programs care about these things. I don't think there are any functional differences betweeen applications with a 240 versus 260 on Step 1. Again, the more important differentiators are clinical grades, letters of recommendation, research, and personal statement (probably in that order). << Agreed, and same is true for whether Top/Mid med school

< It's really heartening to know that, thank you! Do you know if most programs feel the same way you and the program you're at does about scores? And what programs really do care a lot about scores?

< does anyone know if school look at clinical grades out of 6 or 7 rotations? (aka including neurology or not?)

In my dreams << i feel this

<< This is a long post with some relevant data in addition to your predictions. Hope you all find this useful and have a goodnight! -SD << You're #1 in my heart. Thanks SD <3 x7 <<< SheetDaddy fan here, but I think if the posts were smaller, more morsels/highlights, like the first program prediction/tally template - we'd probably get most people on board. On mobile a post like this to the left takes up entire screen

<-- Download the "Calm" App. << why? << because this is neurotic! << Chill out bro, don't read it if you don't like it instead of being negative. Maybe you should spend your time using the "calm" app instead of being up everyones ass x6 << this actually is pretty neurotic, and I don't think saying something is neurotic should invite such a volatile response. Like damn this whole SD shit is becoming cult-like and stupid.

Hey SD--how many interviews do you have? x2

sdff

Me. NY resident, didn't do med school in NY, but literally did an away rotation with a LOR from a NY school. No NYU, no Columbia. <<Me. Georgetown. Lived in DC for 4 years << Me. From the Midwest no U of M, Iowa, or Wisconsin! <<Feel that one bruh. x5 << Same, also no Arizona or New Mexico #cool . << 18 years in Texas and no TX programs yet (holding on to hope). From Mexico, no offer from New Mexico!

Me. Born in Boston, went to Harvard, no interview from Harvard << Harvard hasn't gone out yet? Do you mean pre-lim? x2. Prelim <<I got harvard prelims with no connections, but did not get my home program's prelim...its pointless to try to make sense of it

My guess: Mt. Sinai, Wake, Howard, UCSF, Harvard, U penn, NYU

< you forgot UTAH

NYU??? x2

absolutely NYU << dang one would think that best skin of color training would occur in places with high % skin of color pop (Detroit, Birmingham, Baltimore, etc)

really UTAH?

I think sarcasm

What about Henry Ford, Emory, UNC, NW? Henry Ford PD actually felt the need to reassure us during the interview presentation that they get to see skin cancer at community clinics because the main hospital is so heavily just skin of color

<I rotated at UNC and felt it was very diverse - agreed, very pleasantly surprised

Another vote for Wake Forest! Amy McMichael is an amazing doctor and person!

<- WF faculty seems diverse, but their patient population is still pretty rural and not as diverse

yes, but Dr. McMichael has an interest in SOC so tailors her teaching/clinic to that. She gave a talk to our program a few years ago, hence the fangirling.

Also, Hopkins has a specific initiative to support underrepresented minority faculty and residents.

Me. Born in Boston, went to Harvard, no interview from Harvard << Harvard hasn't gone out yet? Do you mean pre-lim? x2. Prelim <<I got harvard prelims with no connections, but did not get my home program's prelim...its pointless to try to make sense of it