Stanford Health Care-CA

< really? I haven't heard this before

Wait like already done this season or have done historically? <historically

~30 << not true

more? less?

def more. they have 8ish spots. << wahhhhh I wanted this one!!!

probably closer to 60 invitations

seems like a lot. their yield is probably high <lol no WAY is it 60

It's probably the same as most other programs, ~40. But if you look at the match list from last year, for example, not a single person on that list wasn't connected in some strong way. So likely applicants are ranked before interviews and it doesn't change much after interviews.

Fake news. Not everyone last year was connected to the program

Who wasn't? x2

Even the non-Harvard rotators had gone to Harvard for undergrad << This.

This also applies to Penn. x2 << Basically applies to every top program in the country

Based on my extensive sleuthing, it 100% applies to Harvard, Penn, and Yale. As in you're SOL if you don't have a strong connection of some kind. To a much lesser degree, it applies to Stanford and UCSF

Definitely less with UCSF since they don't have an undergraduate college :)

but you have to have CA ties

Stanford and UCSF to a much lesser degree yes, but CA ties are almost required

disagree no california ties and got UCSF

aren't you a special cookie? We're talking about people who matched, not interview invites you snowflake

I was going to say what this person to the left said, but not as rudely. Yes I'm talking about people who MATCH, not get invited for an interview.

lol got it. thanks for the non-rudeness person #2 i get what ur saying<<what exactly do strong connections mean for these top programs? Like regional, rotating there etc?

reposting from edit history:

congrats superstars!!! are any of you external without any connection/away?

myself x5

that's so awesome, congrats friend!

thank you amigo/a!

Are you guys from other top schools though or have 260+ Step scores? There must be some method to this madness, it can feel so random sometimes x2

I think if it were just 260+ they would still have a lot of work to do to pick candidates. Doubt a place like HMS has to go just based off stats to pick their bunch.

Not true, there's only around 40 applicants with step 1 scores > 260 and they likely interview around 40 candidates" >> as an interviewee, I can tell you the assumptions above are not true x4

what assumption? x2<<needing 260+ step scores.

<hey guys is harvard a good program; first time hearing about it

I think they’re relatively new, I wouldn’t rank personally

yeah my PD asked if its a community program when I mentioned it

My PD didn't recognize the name, is it DO? << I thought it was in the Caribbean, I didn't apply for that reason.

oh SHIT it was spelled with an H in the front; been calling it ARVARD

either way, I think the program is low on brand recognition. who would go there?

yeah the interview date conflicted with a race in my city (which I organized, for just myself) so I declined it

yeah probably not worth the money of flights and hotels, tbh. good call. <I've seen ads for this school inbetween my youtube vids I think

:'D >> Heard Harvard is on probation and might not get accredited next year :/ Pretty poor reputation

LOLOL

Rotated at Harvard. They have overall good breadth of training with MGH, Brigham, BIDMC, few other sites. Lots of research opportunities and seems supported by the department. I found the resident surgical skills, dermatoscopy skills, and skin cancer screening skills were subpar at least in comparison to my home program. The department is great and has lots of leaders in derm - but it has a bit of of a very "old-school" feel with lots of white-haired, Caucasian males at the top of the leadership chain. It definitely has an old-school, East Coast medicine feel. This was sort of a turn off for me. Some of the faculty are primarily research clinicians who work 1/2 day a week in cinic - some of these attendings have really not maintained good clinical skills / not particularly interested in clinical medicine and it clearly showed. The number of faculty is huge - which means many residents don't get a lot of exposure to working 1:1 with a smaller group of faculty (there a few expections - for instance, Kroshinky who runs the inpatient service and is just overall the best person ever). Overall, my take home from my experience there was that Harvard has good training and great research opportunities, but that "prestigious" programs aren't necessarily everyone's preference / despite Harvard's own self-perception as "the holy grail of medicine", you can get similar high-quality of training at other less prestigious institutions.

did you get an interview?

no

oh no! you seem really nice, I'm sorry. thanks for the write up! x 2

< Is Kroshinsky nice? I've heard not as positive comments about her, but I much prefer to believe she's as nice as some people have said. Did you interact with Mostaghimi or Chen while you were there? I thought they are both big on inpatient? Were they nice? << Kroshinsky is a superstar x3

are you 3 internals?

not me. Did a research year with her

oh so you're matching Harvard? ;)

<-- Korshinsky is nice. So is Mostaghimi. I didn't work with Chen.

thank you!

Dr Chen is seriously the nicest person on the planet, encourages even med student autonomy in clinic/inpatient

Have heard conflicting things about Mostaghimi though. Heard he can be hard to get along with from an external rotator there

Are you serious?? Hard to get along with in what way? He seems like he'd be so nice and funny! << seemed judgmental and not very friendly << maybe he just has RBF (resting bitch face lol)?? I really don't want to believe he's not as nice as seems :(

< did your friend who was a rotator recieve an interview? << yup

<< white-haired white dude leadership is a thing at a lot of derm programs.... suprised it's still a thing I thought we were in more modern times

only difference is that people not at the top 5 are the only ones that ask that question

LOCATION. SF and Redwood City/Palo Alto are vastly different from each other. Also, Redwood City is still ~20-30 minute away from the main Stanford Campus, depending on traffic

Also rotated at both and agree UCSF > Stanford. I think UCSF has the best clinical training in the entire country with the diversity of patient population, subspecialties you get to see. <<I am surprised people tiered Stanford in top 5 programs on here. It is great, but a little below the other 4, and I will likley rank other west coast programs above it (but city is a big factor for me...and my SO)

I have no idea what gauge you're using to say Stanford is "a little below the other 4". In what way(s), and does that criterion/criteria really define the strength of a program?

<beware many people will tell you the opposite of what they think (ie ranking program lower) so that you may rank it lower, and they can rank it higher and have more chances to match. Take everything on here with a grain of salt and trust your gut

this x10000. Stanford is an incredibly, incredibly popular program, and people will pull some shit like this

< was just about to post that! Stanford >> UCSF. Less demanding, better name recognition to your patients, and the community/alumni network are incredible. << I think you have to take everything with a grain of salt here, but these are both literally great, so it comes down more to city/fit/your personal opinion. Don't rely too much on other people for top program comparison. People interviewing at both of these will be sucessful regardless of where we go. It is about where you will be happy.

I think Stanford and UCSF are vastly different programs with different institutional cultures. UCSF is a public, urban, medical focused university with excellent dermpath and derm surgery programs. Stanford is a wealthy, private university with lots of money in a very suburban area with great basic science research. I would say UCSF has more leaders in academic dermatology than Stanford and better clinical training. Stanford has better basic science research, lots more money, potential networking connections given the law/business/grad programs/etc., and overall a little more "cush" / hand-holding culture. Even though they are geographically close, these are vastly different programs.

I think UCSF is better than Stanford in pretty much all regards. Stronger dermpath, peds derm, derm surgery, and med derm. They're both great obviously, but UCSF is definitly the stronger program.

Did your school have grades or P/HP/H for preclinicals? I feel that schools with a more emphasis for grades end up with more serious students. I don't know whether that's associative or causative.

nah we're P/F. maybe we're just boring

< don't get me started on the bullshit that is grading. my school has restricted honors for the top ten percent of the clerkship overall, while other schools have a set number you have to score above. talking to other students on away rotations really opened my eyes to how much each school is different and how little programs care besides seeing the "H" next to the subject.

I went to a school with unrestricted honors. After getting some of my feedbacks, such as ([Name] was one of X students getting honors for this rotation), I realized that in the end, only 15-20% of students ended up getting honors anyway. They set the goalpost (specificed ahead of time) knowing that anyone could meet that standard, but very few people would actually make it. Ultimately, I think this was the right approach because people could still work hard for themselves, regardless of whether or not they met the challenge. << yep this is a great attitude to take to it if the goalposts are properly set! someone's schools had to get 90% on evals, 80% on shelf, unrestricted number. i was like....lol what.

Thoughts on UCSF testing straight P/F grading for clinical clerkships?

In general, I don't think UCSF has an amazing match list compared to Harvard, Penn, and Stanford if we remove the in-home matches. I do think that it will make things harder for the PDs << it might also skew towards the name. P from Harvard? Who even cares, it's Harvard. No H from MidTierStateU? LOL what a pleb. So i dont think UCSF policy will really change anything in the MSPE. << also would reduce the stress level for clinical clerkships. << P/F curriculums may have shifted pressure onto Step 1, could P/F clerkships put more pressure on Step 2?

possibly. Or more pressure on the LORs

Maybe they will move us over to EM's standardized letters of evaluation. I know that some admins in dermatology wanted to do that this year but they were not able to do so. >> 2 cells over in E

I understand that most derm PD's or people reading apps have a sense of individual schools and what the typical grade distributions are << it was made better this year by including graphs in the MSPE

really? I hate those graphs. fucks over half the people in the class << i mean im the OP in the cell to the left. it clearly shows <20 people in my class getting honors directly next to the text for my evaluations so IF, and big IF, the person actually reads why i didn't get honors, they can see that it was only a select few who did. idk, from the underachiever pov, it looks good. << Point taken

i think it'll start depending more on school prestige and LOR maybe like you said, and of course step scores. good school prestige begets good LOR so it's a trickle-down system all the way to the interviews haha. holy shit i forgot about SLOE, imagine that in Derm! hell no, fuck SLOEs. Hate being reduced to a single number/grade as if I were a cow << lol look at the charting outcomes and step score distribution, or like filters that exist already. i hate it too but sometimes its gotta be done

I'd rather be evaluated on the quality of my LORs than another hoop to jump through. Step 1 (and to a lesser extent, Step 2) is enough of an objective measure.

But still, you'd be surprised. In the state of California, Stanford and UCSF had middling average Step I scores compared to places UCLA and UCSD, probably because the students knew that Step I wouldn't matter as much for them in the perspective of other program directors would be happy to have some Stanford/UCSF students as part of the program.

do we have official numbers on these? I don't doubt that it exists, but it'd be nice to know the extent of the disparity of avg Step 1 scores of accepted derm applicants from top vs mid schools

I don't know, I go to a top 3 school. I got a slightly above average score for derm, and my Dean and PD told me that I should be "competitive anywhere" although they did warn me that the places that I'd get interviews may seem random and that I may not get all the interviews that I wanted (and I didn't)

Also at a top 3 with derm average step and don't have many interviews (but others here do). maybe trickles will come

<< prestige man, prestige. its exactly what you said, they'd love to have a person from x program on their resident and potentially staff roster. for us mid-low tier schools, we gotta kick ass on step 1 and etc to have a shadow of your position, potentially with not as good LORs << do we need more hoops to jump through, though? I don't think the answer to leveling the playing field for students not from the top tier schools is to create yet another metric. We have to do so much already, from getting a good Step 1 score, to kicking ass on clerkships, doing research, etc << true man. someone down the sheet suggested having a set number of programs to apply to, like 20 or so, i think that might really be playing with fire and lead to a LOT of people unmatched or SOAPing, both applicants and programs << for sure. we'd need a transition period or something. couldn't ERAS spend a fraction of their $$$ to hire a data scientist to study the optimal number of programs to apply to? << they did that, for derm it was high 30s. let me see if i can find link

https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-residency/filteredresult/apply-smart-data-consider-when-applying-residency/ i think that is what we are discussing - meme

chances are it'll come out next week <100%

< this person has been calling Stanford next week for a while. Obviously reading between the lines this is a Stanford student or resident. Just chill out until next week guys

Also, at this point, matching into derm is harder than rad onc.

Depends on the fellowship a good mentor will open up a LOT of doors!!

For reals, I think that getting a good mentor is the most challenging step. He/she should be able to make calls for you on your behalf. One of the people whom I'd worked with actually went out of their way to find an outside match PGY-2 position for a resaerch fellow.

< what are some good research positions (post prelim year)? All I know of is Yoo at UCSF?

do you mean Youn at Stanford?

faculty turn over at ucla is an issue -- regardless still one of the best programs in the country. Both are powerhouse programs

really? Both powerhouses?

people on this sheet throw around "one of the best in the country" and "powerhouse" and the phrase "hands down" like its candy on Halloween x2; "powerhouse? powerhouse? we got UCSF and Stanford crushing it on the west coast, and about 20 stronger programs than UCSD and UCLA, and ya'll want to talk about powerhouse?"

Don't think you can go wrong with either. For me it would come down to am I an LA person or San Diego person.

Harvard. More prestige, more opportunities x2

Wondering if this is true. Isn't Stanford seen as more prestigious on the West Coast vs Harvard?

in the original book, elle woods actually goes to stanford law school!! fun fact!! (but also i vote harvard over stanford here)

I would pick Stanford over Harvard because the residents seem happier and get to know their attendings very well (and the location only helps!) <I'm not in love with the location for Stanford. I prefer SF, Boston, Philly (aka more directly in the city) though I'll probably rank east coast over west so biased

Stanford

Harvard!! great exposure with huge faculty with things going on in all areas of derm. Lets you find where you want to focus and really flourish in that area. Stanford also seems great, but my pre-interview thoughts have Harvard and a couple programs above Stanford

You honestly can't go wrong at all either way but I will say, having rotated at one of these places, thereis a reason that the residents at Stanford are stereotyped to be the happiest in the country. The faculty know and care about them a LOT, especially in comparison to some conversations I've had with residents from both places. But again, can't go wrong.

stanford comes out first week of december

source?x2

< how do you know? x3

<yeah fake news. PC told me they'd come out by the end of November

That sounds like a bad idea for multiple reasons. You're there to impress them, not make them feel sorry/pity/worried for you. (also, they may start to wonder, "wait, we gave him/her an interview, but why did ranks 5-15 pass him/her over?). Also, you're likely to be a student from Stanford/NYU/Harvard, and at 3 interviews, I'd get nervous and reach out to your medical school mentor and start making calls. I'm from one of those schools, and I definitely know a number of people who matched at their #3 and below.

it’s not pity it’s clear communication. Who ever is saying not to communicate that is wrong.

i have a feeling that you're trying to sabotage this person's chances.

yeah you should never mention that you have a low # of interviews to programs, wtf at whoever said that

Seriously, what could they possibly say? "Hey, Stanford, I only have interviews from two other top schools (I won't say which ones because that would be rude and I want to keep the discussion to US), so I'm in danger of not matching. Would you please rank me to match so I don't have to repeat this process?" Yeah, right.

You obviously wouldn’t say it like that. But I would work in a way to say that your application has a lot of research publication and I only interested in training at an academic center and there are few programs which would satisfy my ultimate career goals and truly align with my passion for x,y,z including (insert Stanford/NYU/whatever) if youre bold you could even say something like “I only have 3 interviews, granted they are at top academic programs and I’m aware that statistically speaking this decreases my chances of matching. That being said dermatology is my passion and if i didnt match i would continue to pursue my research interests and reapply”. God, be creative people. <-- the second part sounds transparently terrible to be honest. the first part is generic (all 2 applicants say something like that when asked "why program X") and doesn't even let on that you only have 3 interviews

OP is probably a student at Harvard, NYU or Stanford so he/she will match somewhere x2

as a student in one of these schools I think you'd be surprised at how many people don't match. I think its partially due to hubris

Gotta get someone reliable and known to make calls ASAP to realistic match spots (mid and lower teir, geographically compatible with application)

The process is crazy. I have top 10 interviews and only 10 total, but other people from my school have more and I know my scores are higher. I know there are multiple favors going in to selecting for interviews but I kind of check off a lot of the other boxes also. I almost think some programs see 270 and think I won’t go there or that I’m maybe not normal.

in terms of what? clinical vs research vs ... they are very different programs

In terms of whatever matters to you.

Clinically: UCSF, Penn>Harvard>Stanford>NYU

< really? I feel like clinically NYU would be the strongest by far because you're spending 2/3 of your entire residency at the VA+county/public hospital = lots of autonomy. << LOL that person has no idea what they're talking about. Clinically, it's UCSF > NYU > Harvard > Stanford > Penn. Overall reputation is Harvard > Stanford > Penn > UCSF > NYU << lol at these absurd rankings, true delusion

I've heard it's UCSF > Harvard > Stanford > NYU > Penn

Its almost as if the top 5 is interchangable and it really comes down to personal preferences and biases

haha so true x3

Look at last year’s rank sheet. Penn was most popular #1 rank then Stanford out of the top 5.

because everyone definitely writes their ranking and is definitely honest about it too

lol'ed at that gullible person

< there is literally no benefit to faking what you are ranking 1 because that only would dissuade people from also listing that one, which ends up in them possibly ranking where you actually want to go as 1. Also, it's anonymous. It's not each person's specific rank, but a tally of how many people are rankin each program a certain number on their list so there is very little benefit to lying. There is usually a 1/5 yield, so it's actually a good amount of people of the interviewees.

< https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16WyBDd4BhLhqR5F5BWMLRAKtq_Na3d9DHyokLtUg0rA/edit#gid=596104293

neither

Has anyone ever gotten off a Stanford interview waitlist?

I have no idea, but I'd imagine probably not

:( darn no email.

how many does Stanford interview? You can ask your resident buddy but I've heard not very many because literally every faculty member in the department will come to interview you.

seems like only 6 interview spots based on the acceptance cell